Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Today we're talking art and faith with Don Clark. He is the co founder and lead artist at Invisible Creature, a studio near Seattle. Him and his brother Ryan formed it in 2006. You can see Don's work featured in like the USPS stamps posters for NASA, the Isles of Target books for Pixar, Walls of Warby Parker and the New York Times. Just like lots of these different venues, what's consistent is like the work is always like really good and cool. Don and Ryan, they started out like in the 90s creating album artwork for various punk metal, hardcore ban. But like over the past 25 years, that roster of musicians just kept growing like Foo Fighters, Kendrick Lamar, Lecrae, Billy Idol, Korn and countless others. Invisible Creature, their company has been nominated for four Grammys. And there's so much great work and it's just gotten better and better, in my opinion. And Don Clark has so many cool illustration projects as well. But one project that really jumps out to me is this children's book called the Biggest Story Bible. So this book is not only a work of art, but I really believe it's like God's hands, we're all over it. So it's not, I guess, a translation of the Bible, but a paraphrase is the term there to use. But man, it really just makes these like Bible stories clear. And it's also like clever and it's fun and it's meaningful and even for, I mean, my kids love it. Kids love it in general, but parents really love to read it too. And him and his brother, I feel like if you look at just the stuff they've made, it's like people who delight in creating and I would really say like a lack of fear in what they create like, and a delight in play. Maybe that's the other side of the coin. But they'll make cool products because they want to make them and because they're cool. You know, so like hats, books and toys, heavy metal music that like wins awards, you know, games, posters. And you can look on their website and just look. They even like sell it directly. They have people who like collect the stuff directly from them, like Invisible Creature. But even all that aside, it's just like Don feels like such a down to earth guy and very open about his faith. He's a father, he's a husband, they live on a farm in the Northwest, which sounds like a dream and you know, they run the studio out of there. He talks about God, kind of how he rescued him and how he's guided him. I Just really enjoyed this conversation and I think you will too. So let's talk art and faith with Don Clark.
When or how did God become real, like for you?
[00:02:19] Speaker B: My dad was a pastor, so it was kind of, you know, always in our house and it was just something that was part of our, our life. And so, you know, we went to church and all those things.
I think the, one of the cool things actually in hindsight, I think looking back is my parents weren't really, they weren't hard at us in regards to like memorizing scripture and like you, you know, they didn't make it like homework and they didn't make it seem like it wasn't fun or you know, it was just part of our life. And so I honestly think that that's a huge part of why I'm still, I think walking, you know, with the Lord today is that it was never something that you know, felt like was a job or something. We had like chores, you know, or something like that. So. But there was, there was, as a kid, it's hard to kind of like, you know, make your own decisions in that regard. You're still just figuring stuff out and you're under your parents roof and you need, you know, you're a dependent. And so, um, one of the, one of the biggest catalysts for us was music. We in, in the mid-90s, we found kind of Christian punk rock, I guess you would say. And so that was kind of fusing this foundation that we had at home which was like, you know, Christian beliefs and you know, all of that mixed with like, oh, there's like these tattooed, you know, guys and gals out there touring and playing music and they're singing about Jesus. This is like crazy, you know. So on one hand it was like the rebellious side, which was like as a pastor's kid, I had that in spades.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: And then also just like, oh, wow, okay, so that's interesting. And they're playing with like non Christian bands and vegan bands and straight edge and atheist and evil and all that stuff. And every, you know, every band was getting their moment on stage really, you know, like. And it was for the most part really respectful. If you had, if you had stage time, you were allowed to say whatever you wanted to say. And if you're a Christian band, those bands would get up and kind of talk about their faith and some people would heckle, but they'd get their time. And so it was really kind of this cool scene where everyone kind of respected each other and you know, I used to say, like, it kind of made Christianity cool, I guess, because it was like we were, you know, becoming friends with people from all different walks of life in this scene. So, you know, I got baptized when I was 14, so that was, I guess you could say, maybe that's kind of like when I decided to actually go for it. So that was before all this. But, yeah, I've always felt like a real sense, a calling, I guess you could say, from an early age, as long as I can remember.
And then made. Made, you know, this faith my own, I think, you know, in my late teens. And.
Yeah, so that's the. That's the short version.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: I guess in some ways, punk rock is a great place for faith because especially in those environments, it is against the norm or against the current.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: In some ways, yeah. And I feel like, you know, the aggression and angst and, you know, all of that as a young.
You know, as a. As a young man, it all just really. It was the perfect outlet for that. We're all, you know, at that age going through stuff, whether you're a believer, you're not, and it was like a really cool outlet for that.
So, yeah, super thankful for that. I mean, that. That time laid the foundation for everything I'm doing now. You know, I met my wife at a dirty punk rock show, you know, in a. In a house.
We've been married 27 years, and so.
And you were talking about Asterisk, my first company, that all came from just knowing other band guys.
So, yeah, it's amazing.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: That's cool. Very cool. Is there a moment in there that he just showed up in a big way? I mean, it also sounds like too. Like there was a good foundation for you, your desires to create, and even punk rock and stuff. There's families in the Midwest that wouldn't let their kids go anywhere near there. So it sounds like a good environment. But even just as you get older and have a family, like. Yeah. I'm just curious, is there ways that you feel like you see the Lord show up or, like, kind of rescue you guys in a way? I know for me, like, my first few years of marriage was like a big, like, mirror in my face. Like, everything I needed to, like, I was dealing with that I didn't. I could just go away and cope. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I can't go away.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, dude. I mean, you know, I'm. I just turned 50, so I was married at 23, and I'm, you know, I'm A completely different person now, and so is my wife. And so by the grace of God, we still love each other. And we were, you know, I think We've, we've raised three kids. We have a 21 year old, a 19 year old and a 13 year old. And we, you know, it's, it's, it's been amazing. Like the only reason we're still married is our faith, you know.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: It's cool.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Yeah. In regards to your question, like, I feel like my big answer to that, it's kind of more of like an ethereal one. But it's like I've tried to pursue, I've tried to pursue holiness, I guess I've pursued the heart of Christ and I do it and I'm obviously terrible at it. But what I've noticed is as I've done that and tried to stay close to him, these opportunities have come up and not just professionally, but in my family in regards to just how I lead, how I'm a father, how I'm a husband. And so totally it's, it's, it's really like, like the question of has he shown up? For me, it's like, yeah, in every walk of life just because I've tried to stay close and you know, and I, you know, I don't really necessarily believe we seek God. I think God in the end, you know, that's obviously a highly debatable topic, but I do think that like God has called us and so I just, his grace has just been just insane from, from my personal family life to my work life. And I do see it as kind of like, you know, I think a lot of people like to separate, say family, personal life here, work. I've been, I've been really blessed to kind of have it all be kind of mixed in together. My studio has been at home for 20 some 20 years, so I've been able to, you know, watch my kids grow up and be available to them throughout the day. And so it's all kind of, even if you look at our work, it, a lot of it has like been during these child rearing ages, which is, you know, I'm working on LEGO stuff and my kids are into Lego or I'm doing this and so it's been like this really kind of cool. They become, they've been my muse, I guess you could say for, you know, since I've, since I've had kids. So yeah, man, it's just the grace of God is just something that I feel like tenfold.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: That's awesome. Man, I feel so similar. I feel like I used to travel all the time for commercials and jobs. And then I feel like as soon as I got married, for whatever reason, it was all local work in la, which was great.
And then having kids. I just shot a Legoland commercial.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Dude.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Awesome.
Nothing makes you more of a hero hero than shooting.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: How old are your kids?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Nine and five.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Oh, dude. Yeah, that's perfect.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Prime Lego.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: Prime, Prime Lego. Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. That's so cool.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: I do feel like the Lord, he shows up. Not just work, but it's just like in every aspect. Yeah, that's cool. In your work, is there an aspect of it that feels like this is like the most life giving part, like I'm called to it or something, you know? Is there?
[00:10:25] Speaker B: I love, I love that question because my answer is people on that one. It's, I was thinking about that for a second because, man, I love, I love my job. But like, if there were no people involved and I didn't develop these relationships, then it would be, it's just me in the studio working on stuff that just, you know, is, it's, it really is kind of like, it, it's the relationships with, with my clients and my friend, and my clients have become friends, you know, some of my best friends. And so that is kind of the one through line. I think that I, I, I, you know, I work alone already and I, you know, you probably do too in a, you know, capacity for sure. And so that is, or that already is kind of a lonely thing if you're just in the studio working. But, you know, getting excited about a project with another human being is like very, very cool. And making something for, you know, someone else that they're gonna then show the world is like, is really, really cool. And if, I think if you took that away, I would just, you know, kind of be miserable. So that, that was like a, that was a good question.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: That's cool. That's not the answer I was expecting. And yet I, I love that answer. And it rings true. Like when I first moved to la, I was like, I will outwork anybody, totally get up early. And you know, and I did that for years. Yeah. And I just became miserable. Like, no community, no, no real relationships, you know, And I was like, it's the flavor of life. It's with people. Like, I don't really care about any.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Of this anymore, you know, a hundred percent. I think the older you get, you realize that. Absolutely. You know, like, my mother passed away two years ago. And that was like a huge kind of like, catalyst for, you know, now what my life now and like, who I am now post, you know, my mother's death. So I think, like, you realize all we have really are our friends and family in the end. Right? And so, you know, in my 20s and 30s and even my early 40s, I'm just, you know, you're focused on grinding, building this thing, supporting your family, being, Being creatively fulfilled while also trying to make money at it, you know, and you, you turn your hobby basically into a career and you're like, oh, man, this is not, you know, it's not as necessarily as where I thought it would be in terms of joy.
And then you get to a point where you're like, oh, wow. It's all like, this is now totally secondary, all this stuff that I was working towards. And I'm thankful that I did it. I'm thankful that I got to that point. But to keep, to have that mindset, I think going forward is just like an impossibility. It's just, there's, you know, just hanging out with my friends, sitting at a restaurant is maybe my favorite thing, you know, or. Or with my family in the living room. So, yeah, it. All that stuff really puts life into perspective. I think once you kind of go through some actual hard life things, you know, you and I get to make things for a living. We get paid to. To make things. That's a really. That's a, That's a blessing. And we're very rare, you know, it's very rare thing to be able to do that. So, you know, this kind of like mantra that artists are saving the world or whatever, I just don't, I don't buy it. I'm just like, man, I get to draw pictures and get paid for. That's awesome. But I'm not, you know, I might put a smile on some people's faces for like a split second, but that's about it. Yeah, so, yeah, that's cool.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: So I think I kind of came to this place where first I was like, oh, I forgot. Called me into film. And then after kind of like crashing and burning, crippling depression, and then like feeling like the world rescued me from it and sort of like gave it up. Then I felt like I was in the other side of the camp where I was like, oh, this is like a shallow pursuit.
And then only over time, I felt like the Lord was like, oh, it's time to start doing this.
And I was like, but it doesn't matter. And then all of a sudden I realized my internal logic is like saving lives, ministry, and then is everything else kind of shallow? And I felt like that was a struggle of mine for a while and I felt like my views on it would change. But I'd be curious for you to hear of like, I agree in the sense that like we're not saving the world, you know, but what is the importance of. Is there a logical argument for art being important, you know?
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the.
I obviously art is one of the, it's one of the things that I, it's an attribute from God that he doesn't, he doesn't give to any of his other creation creations. And if, if an animal is creating art, it's by accident, right? So I feel like, man, we're so blessed to be able to share in that, that attribute. So it's extremely powerful.
And whether it's film, music, a painting, for me, obviously, I think for me film is the most emotional and just form of art.
So it plays a massive role. And I, you know, I've been, I've.
I've been blessed to work on some, some Bible related projects and people have said that they've been brought to tears by just flipping through the pages. And what's interesting is I'm like, man, I was close to that while I was working on it. I was like, I can't believe.
I don't know. As I was working on the, on the book, I was like, I can't even believe I'm able to do this, you know, and that, that this is like, it's coming out, you know, I guess better than I expected, which is kind of weird. I would, you know, I would go back and redo pages and stuff. But in the end it was like, I look at it and I'm like, oh, wow, I can't believe I able to be part of this.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: But it is really great, by the way. I just, just say it out loud. I always get talking about my own work, but like it's, it's really good. It's really, really good.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Thank you, dude. So I see, like, it's a good, it's a good question because there, there is that this, this kind of like greater. I don't know, greater is not the word, but this calling as an artist and these things I get to make. But it's also just in, in reality what it is, is just who, you know, my life and the people that are in my life and who am I. You know, I'm around the People at my church, neighbors, that's really who I'm kind of around and you know, that I can actually tangibly help. You know, we, we moved to Arizona about a year ago because my wife's parents are in their 80s and we wanted to, for various reasons, wanted to get down here, but also just to one big one was to be able to help them. And you know that, you know, that's really kind of the most important stuff. Right? I mean I'm, I get to work on these cool things. That's awesome. But I'm also taking, you know, my 85 year old grant father in law to his doctor's appointment and he, he needs my help, you know, and so like, and it feels like I would have never even thought about that 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Like that's something I would be interested in doing. But it's, it's really become something I, Yeah, I'm, I'm not only glad to do it, it's, it's like, it's, it's part of a purpose now that I have to, to be here to help with them. And my wife is the same way. So it's, it's been like a.
I think it kind of piggybacks off your question. There's kind of like the broader thing, okay, you're making these films and, and things like that and that is affecting people on an emotional level. But then who's in your life that's actually like affected by Nathan as a person? And so I think those are like two distinct things that are important. But I honestly think the, the, your, your circle, your close circle is, is the most important thing. I mean that's, that's really how humans have lived for a millennia. It just so happens now that we can broadcast our stuff to the world now. So.
But yeah, good question.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so true. I know the idea of like hustle culture and empire building is like real loved online. I know, but it's like, yeah, how do you get your kids? Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. What does your kids say about you? Yeah.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: So even thinking into some of those projects, like you mentioned the Bible one you did, but is there a project that you feel like specifically proud of that sticks out to you that you would have people go check out?
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the biggest story products, the books that I've done are probably. Yeah, they're up there. I mean, not just because, I mean a huge part of it is because my faith, but also it's, it's. People have resonated with it and have really enjoyed it.
But there are some other ones that are just, you know, that I was able to work with some amazing bands over the years and have created some huge permanent installations, you know, around the nation. Those are really, really cool. But I think, like.
And I never saw this coming at all when I was even working on the Bible, but I do think that that will probably be like, you know, the, the legacy piece, you know, like in 30 years or whatever, when I'm 80 or whatever, I think that'll probably be the one that will mean the most to me. And I think just like, will be the thing I, maybe that I'm remembered for in, in the art world.
But that's cool. Yeah, dude. I honestly, I get to work with so many cool people on so many cool projects. It's. I just like, I pinch myself still that I get to do this for a living and just make things that are just fun and cool for cool people and brands. So.
But yeah, I think if I had to choose one, it'd be the Bible for sure.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: That's cool. Yeah, I love it. I mean, it seems like a pretty good answer, you know?
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's kind of low hanging fruit. Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: No, it's good though. It's, it's. It's very cool. I feel like to all the years of experience, I feel like that's almost something you could like work you've built up to. You know what I mean?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree, man. I agree. Yeah. I would have never been able to do that early on. I don't even think I'd be interested in doing it. I think, in fact, Crossway came to me asking if I knew anyone that wanted to do it. And I said. And I actually threw it out there, like, what if I did it? So it was more or less like selfishly wanting to see something on the shelf that I wanted to see, you know, that I was. That I. That I thought was lacking.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: So that's how that all started. I wasn't even up for the job. They wanted to know if I had any ideas.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's cool. Do you feel like the Holy Spirit plays a role in the creative process or like inspiration or even in the, in the making stuff process?
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that the Holy Spirit plays a role in absolutely everything I do. So the answer, the default answer, I think would be, yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. My inspiration levels just ebb and flow in regards to how busy I am. You know, if I'm finding myself in a room. I'm sure you are.
I'm finding myself in a real creative spot right now because I'm. I'm.
I've hired a project manager, and I'm working with more illustrators and artists now, and I'm kind of.
I'm at that point where I'm overseeing a lot of things, so I'm able to kind of go come up with new ideas, and I've, you know, have some margin, seeing. Yeah, I have some margin. Exactly. And so it's. I'm. I'm. I've never.
I mean, I've never really had that, where I'm kind of like.
It's always just me doing a thing. And over the last two or three years, we've been able to kind of build a thing where we have, like, partners and people helping out, which is really, really cool. That has allowed me to kind of be more creative. So.
But, yeah, that's an interesting question. I think, like, again, it just goes back to, like, how you see the world and how your viewpoint on everything. And I, you know, if. If God is sovereign, then he's sovereign over, you know, inspiration.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: More than ever. I was thinking about. I think CS Lewis has a quote that's like, either nothing's a miracle or everything's a miracle.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Choose.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yep. Yep.
Yeah. I had a C.S. lewis quote on my desk for years. I can't find it because we moved. But it said the world doesn't need any more Christian artists or writers. The world needs more artists and writers that are Christian. I've always just, like, resonated that with that, big time.
He's. Yeah, he's one of my heroes, for sure.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: That's good.
Yeah. Someone was saying Christian, like, works. Works way better as a noun than it does as an adjective, you know, so, like, Christian. Great film. Great Christian film. Probably not great.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: Exactly.
100%. 100%. Yep.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Do you have any spiritual practices that you've found fruitful?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah, church, for sure. On Sundays, we. Prayer is huge.
I go to the gym, and gym is a time where I'm just, like, on the way to the gym, I'm praying, and while I'm there, just kind of trying to focus on the important stuff, and it's a good kind of reset in the day. I actually been going to the gym in the middle of the day, which has been really cool because I used to just get up early in the morning, go do that, go to work, and it's been kind of this cool, almost resetting the day after that. So that's been a cool kind of thing.
But yeah, just being in community with people in our church and you know, just finding a church, you know, there's no perfect church. Just show up to the church on your road, on your street, you know, it's just like yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: I think that's so important. I spent so long looking, I was like bouncing around community groups in Los Angeles looking essentially I was looking for like people I thought that were like going to be my best friends. Yes, I thought were cool, which it's not like the worst thing, but it's just not the order it works. You know what I mean?
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah, no, and I did the same thing. We went to the cool churches and all that stuff and then you know those old.
A lot of them crumbled. So yeah, it's just like, yeah, I.
The church is made up of people and people are flawed and so you know, if you leave one church, you're going to go to another one, they're going to have problems too. So we've. God has really protected me from cynicism in that regard and it's been like really life giving.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: That's awesome.
Even that topic reminds me of like I was just so. For the film, short film I just made and Nathan Englehart was there.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Oh cool.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: We were doing. It's probably like half atheists in the room and half believers.
I wasn't nervous at all about showing the film but like this Q and A. I know they're going to ask me about the origin of this film and I'm like I'm going to talk about this and I really, what kept coming to my mind is about like, you know, for those who don't believe, like people just don't let imperfect people decide how you feel about a perfect God, you know?
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Totally, totally man. That's a huge thing.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: I've had attention of work in the industry I work in. I'm probably more inclined like people pleasing vibes in general.
So that's kind of been like I like want to be authentically honest and like be a real person and like it's such a huge part of my life and my family life and my community group but then also feeling that I don't want to be like, you know, preaching at people and, and too I'm on set too. I'm not sure what your patterns are as much as work, but has that been a thing for you or like a tension there of like talking about your faith at all or has it been. Yeah, I'd be Curious to hear.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, like, I. I walk that same. I think a bit of a tightrope as you do. You know, I work a lot with just all kinds of people and companies, and I.
I think you said it just. I. I really try to be authentic as I am, as I can, and if. If the. If it gets into a point where, like, hey, we're talking about faith, or they're asking me actual personal questions or whatever, awesome. But, you know, that's after they kind of get to know me and we're kind of chatting around. But, yeah, I just. I think, like, I think if you're just true to yourself, you know, and. And just being open and honest, like, you're.
People don't have any problem with that. You know, I think, like, you know, I'm a. I'm a. I'm a.
I think politics is the one caveat that is like, I. It's just like a. I just don't discuss. That is. I think, now more than anything. Yeah, now more than anything. It just. That's just something that's, you know, there's this, like, fear of no neutral ground, and I'm like, well, no, I want to have neutral ground in that regard. I don't. That there, you know. Yeah.
So I'm a Jesus guy, and, like, get to know me. We'll talk about that. But, like, because I know and love so many different people, it's just something that, like, if it comes up, awesome. But I think, you know, we are unashamed and we talk about our faith anytime any. Anyone asks, and it's woven throughout our website. And so I think there is kind of, like.
I think folks already kind of know, you know, if they've kind of been following us for. They for sure know.
You know, we started a band in the early 2000s that, you know, kind of took off, and that was in the Christian market, so.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Demon hunter. Yep.
So, yeah, it's just. It's all. It's all part of who we are, but it's not the. I don't think it's loving to lead with that, you know, and just to be like, hey, what's up? How's your walk?
[00:27:32] Speaker A: You know, maybe a little strange.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, super strange. Yeah, totally. And I think, like, you know, there's. There's amazing. Just organic gospel opportunities all day long if you just, like, let it happen as opposed to trying to push it, you know, so.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Totally. That's good.
Kind of jumping back into the work. Is there any patterns you find to like when you get inspired.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a good question.
So what I, I guess when I, when I was thinking about that question, I was like, you know what? The pattern is probably like my family and kind of like when I'm, when I'm, it's kind of like to my detriment. What I, what I, what I do is I, I'll come up with an idea based on something that I, my kids are into. And then I'll, I'll make this fun idea into a business or, you know, or like, you know, somehow like, oh, we should do this. And then it kind of like, it doesn't suck the fun out of it, but it's just kind of like I, I'm inspired by so much stuff that it's, you know, my girls are. My, my wife and my daughters are into rodeo and we do a lot of horse related stuff. We have four horses out here and so cool. That's like this thing that I kind of married and do and fell into. You know, I'm not a cowboy, but I just, I absolutely love that culture and just like the, the cowboy ethic and everything. So we have a, we have a big thing in that world that we're rolling out in the next few months. And it started off though as like, I just love my girls. And now it's, now it's turned into this huge thing. So that's cool. It's been, it's really fun. But my answer to that question is like, I think I, I like creating things that are, are based around people I love. You know, in a weird way.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: You know, whether that's music, you know, working on, you know, it all started with music and then kind of became, you know, my family is my muse or whatever. So that's, that's my answer to that question.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: I think that's cool. Yeah, I feel like that's answers on a deeper level too.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: I feel like one thing that you and Ryan have done that has always stuck out to me is like, it seems to be this, like, let's just do it.
Just make it like, for you to like start selling branded products of your own things.
And it's like, A, it looks really fun and B, there's something to that mindset, which is like, we can do this.
And yeah, it feels very like in some ways, like, I don't know if optimistic is the word I'm looking for, but it just seems like you're like, why not? You know, and that's not super normal. I feel like I don't see that as much.
Do you feel like that came from anywhere? Is that, like, your answer?
[00:30:17] Speaker B: That's a great question. No, I honestly think that that came from band life. And basically merch, you know, merch is just such a. I think, like, you know, my son and I are into heavy metal and he's. He's like an amazing guitar player, way better than I am now, but. And he's 19, which is crazy. But we.
We were talking about the other night. We're like, you know, with metal, it's like 50 of this stuff we love is like the merch. You know what I mean? Like the logos and the merch, and then the rest of it is the music and the. And the. And the live show. So I think with Invisible Creature. Oh, I know it is. It's really like, it comes from that kind of band mentality of just, like, making cool stuff.
We also wanted to come up with a name. We were very, like, focused on coming up with a name that sounded cool, that was not like something studio. It was just going to be this ambiguous thing that we could make whatever we wanted to.
And.
Yeah, and there's, you know, there's no one we have to ask. It's just like, hey, let's make something. We don't do. We don't do large runs of stuff because that's just, you know, that we know our audience. We know that we're going to make like a hundred of this thing and it'll sell and we'll make our money back and it's fun to do. Yeah.
So, yeah, we feel like. I've always felt like if we. If we like it, then a few other folks will like it. It doesn't have to be, you know, thousands or anything like that, but just like, if there's a few other people that want to buy it, it gives us the reason to just make it. So it's the same with objects or anything that we kind of put out under our site. And, you know, we do low runs of stuff just because we don't want to have stuff sitting on the shelf and kind of like, keep it. Keep making new things. So.
And we have people that kind of collect everything we make, which is super cool, but it's a small, you know, it's a relatively small group of people, but it's so fun. And it's one of those things that it leads to commercial work. You know, we'll do. We'll do something for ourself and then a client will be like, I want that, but we're gonna make 5,000. So it's just. It's super cool.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: That's super cool. I mean, I feel like that's one of the biggest lessons I had. There's a director named Solomon Lichten. He was on here, but one thing he was talking about was he's like, oh, I would say the majority of what's on my website is passion project or like a director's cut to the point where like, the client wants nothing to do with this cut, you know?
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: And he's like. And that's where. That's like my whole career is from making things I have passion and excited about, you know.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: I agree 100%. And we, you know, that's like, it's something I tell young artists too. And I'm like, just. Just put the stuff up that you are excited about doing. If you put up this huge, you know, proposal that you design or whatever. Let's just say you did like this massive brochure for this massive company or something. Like, okay, just, you know, put Nike in the client list, but don't show that. Show the stuff that, like, you know, you have fun doing and you'll get that work. You know, it's also just a true representation of who you are, you know, like the. The kind of stuff that, that you like. So. Yeah, I agree. I can't agree more.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: That's cool. I'd be interested to hear. Have you ever had to like, turn down work because of convictions of any sort? Like, be like, I don't feel good about that.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Not as of late. I mean, probably not in the last 10 years, but for sure, in the early days, we.
We get asked to do stuff all the time for bands and, you know, entertainment type stuff that would just. Those are, those are easy really to kind of say no to. There's some that were like more, you know, from a conscious standpoint. Like, what. What is the band known for? What are they like, singing about? You know, we're usually pretty, like, cool with like artistic expression in that regard when it comes to bands, but sometimes it's like over the top and those are easy. But yeah, it. It definitely happens.
[00:34:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Is there any spiritual advice you give, like your younger self? I know as you have kids and a 19 year old, maybe you find yourself giving it already, but is there anything that you would say, like you needed to hear at like. Yeah, 25 or somewhere in there. 20s?
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh my gosh. At 25, I was such an idiot. I. Yeah, I would just like, I would Be like, dude, stay the course, man. Stay the course. Be patient.
The hard stuff that you're gonna, that you're gonna run into in life is going to build you into a better man, and it's going to build you into a more empathetic and loving husband and father. And, you know, 25, you're just like, dude, nothing matters except for my career or what I'm doing today, you know, So I, I would be like, just, man, stay close to God and just, you know, stay the course. So.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Yeah, good question.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: That's good. Similar to myself, unfortunately. I'm like, knowing me, I probably wouldn't have taken the advice, but yeah, totally.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: I'm like, who's this guy showing up? Yeah, he looks a lot like an older version of me.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: But yeah, I wanted to ask you too. I feel like I find a lot of, especially men, believers who are sort of like apprehensive towards ambition or kind of suspicious of it. What's your relationship to ambition? Like, do you see it as like a God given thing or do you see it as something you have to keep in check?
[00:35:42] Speaker B: That's a great question. I think that that ambition is just. It's always been in me and it's just what I, I'll, I'll swap the word out for just inspiration. And I just like, you know, whether it's watching, you know, the Bones Brigade, skateboarding or Star wars or, you know, like baseball as a kid, like, I just wanted to live in those worlds and make stuff. And so that coupled with the, with the healthy reality that all this stuff is going to be dust, right? So everything behind me, it's all going to be in a landfill. And understanding that that's okay. And go, okay. This is the stuff that I like to surround myself with right now. It's extremely inspiring. It is. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things. I had a friend actually tell me one time and this like, totally. I don't know where he heard it, but he's like, it's. Oh, I remember actually we had like a nice chair in our house. Like when I was in my 30s, we had like this Eames chair and the kids were scratching it all up and, you know, I was like, like getting frustrated that, you know, I had bought this chair before we had kids and.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:49] Speaker B: And a friend of mine was like, you know, I read somewhere that if you have a problem with your chairs getting scratched up or anything getting scratched up, that you have a problem with death. And I was like, dude, that is deep, man. And It's. It's so true. It's like. It's like, this is just a chair.
And also, it should be scratched. These scratches show the. The wear and tear of my family's life, you know, so nothing. We can't hold on to any of this stuff, and it's all gonna, you know, essentially burn. So I. I think that there's, like. There is this, like.
I've tried to retain this healthy dose, a healthy, like, balance of extreme inspiration based on just my surroundings and the people I love and just the thing I. Things I saw as a kid, you know, from an artistic standpoint and just. Also just the reality that, like, life is FL and we're called to a greater purpose and life on this earth is fleeting, but life is actually forever. You know, it's just that's.
You have to have all those things in perspective. I think that's also something I've tried to teach my kids, too, is like, hey, you know, with my son wanting to go into music, as soon as he wanted to pursue that, I was all in. But it was also like, hey, dude, here's all the pitfalls, man. We can go to these shows. We can go hang out with the bands and stuff. But, dude, let's talk about all the lead singers that have killed themselves. Let's talk about all, like, family life, trying to have. Trying to have a family as a touring musician. And the 23 hours that you're not on stage. What is that like? You know, so it's been like. It's always like, two things can be true at once. It's this awesome, like, form of art that's exhilarating, and I get to play in front of people, and it's meaningful, and people write letters about it, and they. You know how much their songs mean to you. But then also just like, it's.
Don't drink the Kool Aid. Like, it's not the. It's not the end all, you know, and so, like, I think just healthy balance in that. In that regard is huge.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: That's good. So good.
Makes me think of. There's this pastor guy, Tim Keller, that I like a lot, and he was talking about, yeah, yeah, rest in peace. Yeah. He's talking about misordered loves. And I feel like there's a great way of talking about it where it's just like, these are. These can all be great things. It just. They have to be in the right order and pretty much 100%, you know, and it can be a blessing and a gift if it's in the right order. And if it's not, it can literally destroy you.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I think, like, early on with my collecting, like, you know, hobbies, I would, you know, I started with. I think I started collecting baseball card, and then that got into Star Wars. Figures. And then as I got older, it's just like, you know, all this stuff that I love, there is this sense of, man, I want to surround myself with, like, things that make me feel good and feel safe. Like, almost like, you know, in my bedroom as a kid, I'm playing with my, you know, whatever.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: It's like my happy place.
You have to kind of, like, deconstruct out of that and go, okay. Yes. I think some of that is definitely, you know, true.
But, man, you know, as soon as I'm gone, these things are going to be out of the garage sale. And so just, like, I think it has to dawn on you to be like, oh, yeah, okay. And I think once you. Once you have that realization, then that's true for everything, whether it's my house or anything that I own. You know, it's just like, I'm borrowing this house while I live here. Yeah. I mean, while I'm. While I'm alive. You know, I mean, I own it on paper, but it's not really mine. So I think it's just like, super important to have all that stuff, you know, dialed into the brain.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: Do you feel like being married and then having kids made me end up, like, just verbal saying stuff. More things out loud and communicating more was more internal. And I feel like it's actually sort of dramatically changed a lot of, like, the work I do. And also my beliefs didn't. Realizing there's sort of, like, these, like, beliefs, you know, aren't true, but you kind of just keep them in because you've never said about.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: And then your kid asks, you know, asks the question, where do we go when we die? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you feel like that how is, like, being a father and a husband affected your belief system and your. Maybe your artwork as well? Maybe choose whatever question in there jumps.
[00:41:08] Speaker B: Out a hundred percent. I mean, I love that that you brought that up because, like, yeah, we just kind of go through our lives, just everything's internal. Or you're verbalizing with your friends or your. Your wife, and then you have these little humans, and they're, like, asking these questions. You're like, oh, actually, I don't think I've ever said that out loud. You know, like, you know, when they're asking. So it's like Jim Gaffigan has this sketch where he's like. His kid's like, you know, daddy, what's that? What's that stick on the. On the top of the car? And he's like, that's not a stick. That's an antenna. And then his kid goes, what's an antenna? And he goes, it's a stick.
So it's like, it's. Those kind of questions come up, man. I think, like, in the end, it has to be something that strengthens me because I've, like, I've had to go, you know, just look up answers or look up scripture. I think, like, we bought a farm 14 years ago, and I didn't. We didn't know what we were doing at all. And I was, like, on YouTube and just trying to figure out how to all do all this stuff, but with our family, like, it was like a really, you know, a cool thing we were all going through with little kids trying to figure this out. But, dude, all of that has strengthened me in every possible way. Just even talking with clients or being like, just. I think half of this job is just understanding how to talk with humans. You know, maybe that's going to go away eventually, but I think just, like.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: You know, I think it's gonna double up. I think you're gonna, like, only want to talk to a human.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Oh, dude, you're right. But I think just, like, social situations, conversations and stuff like that, you know, just having kids, like, you're at the park with your son, and then, you know, all of a sudden you're talking to a parent. You know, you're like, I didn't plan on talking to this person today, but here we are. Yeah, totally. But, yeah, no, I think all that stuff is just, like, it. It's just sharpening the iron, for sure. In, like, every aspect, I had this.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Moment when I was.
I realized I felt like I could pass a lie detector test. I felt like God was calling me to make this thing, like, this film. And then I also had this belief bouncing around my mind that, like, I said, this is kind of, like, shallow work. Like, I also have a community group. We're super involved in the church. Like, it really is kind of its own ministry.
And I was like, this is important. And I realized I almost never talk about filmmaking. I already live in la and, like, last thing I want to do is be the guy at community group, just, like, talking about a story.
But I felt like there was this idea that this is shallow.
And so I remember just mentioning this to my wife and she's like, so you feel like you could for sure say God called you to do this and then you think it's shallow.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: And I was like, huh. I didn't ever thought about it that way.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: Totally. Good point. I know. I think that there's also this. We like to, you know, artists, I think we second guess ourselves all the time. You know, we. We don't even like what we did last week, you know, so it's just, it's.
It's also especially hard when you're putting your soul out there on the, you know, you're putting your. Everything you have on the, on this project and it's not. And it's, it's an exchange for money. So it's like, okay, I need to.
It's a representation of me. And then if you don't like it, well, then my feelings are hurt. And what does that say about me? Like, you have to just like play all these different games. I think there is like self, you know, not hatred or anything, but just kind of like second guessing like what you're, you know, what, what your calling is. That happens.
I think like imposter syndrome in a, you know, in a real way is like a really healthy thing actually, because it kind of just keeps you, keeps you hungry and kind of moving and kind of like wanting to one up your last thing. And I think if you've ever kind of like every artist I've ever talked to that I love and respect says they have imposter syndrome. And I think that goes from, you know, Brad Pitt all the way down to someone who's just like a, you know, an extra. So. Yeah, totally. I think that's all like super, super important.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was at this Q and A where it was like all 12 Oscar nominated screenwriters and essentially they just went down the list with a microphone, just being like, I don't. I think it's kind of an accident I'm here.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Next door.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: I probably shouldn't be here. It's like literally just every single one's like imposter syndrome.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: I mean that's, I mean, that's cool. It means you're in the right group, you know, Like, I just, I feel like that's, that's real.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: You know, you mentioned feeling like film can be one of the most like emotion of the art forms. It can move you a lot. Is there any films that you have enjoyed a lot in the past, like 20 years or so that stick out to you? Or meant something to you?
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Gosh, that's a good question. That now puts me on the spot. What have I loved?
[00:45:48] Speaker A: I'm terrible at answering this and I've prepared this, but just kind of curious what you enjoy.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: You know, I, I tend to. I tend to. I like documentaries. I think that's probably just also I'm getting older and I'm wanting to learn more, but.
And then I tend to like, no, I think I just. I think I like almost everything. But I do, like, lately I'm finding myself putting on documentaries.
I watched one that was.
You might actually know the director, just blanking on his name. But I watched this film called After Death and it's like, it's. Angel. Put it out actually. But it's. It's a really interesting. I went into it really kind of.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: Like, is that Jen Jacobs? See the director?
[00:46:38] Speaker B: No, it's a. No, I would know his name.
It's interesting. He emailed on the day of my. Yeah, it's really cool. He emailed me on the day of my mom's funeral out of the blue. I didn't know this guy and he was like, hey, I'm in town screening my film and I'd love to stop by. Like, do you guys, you know, sell stuff from your studio? I was like, oh, I'm actually out of town. I. But he was like, he had the link to his film and it was like this film about the afterlife where he basically interviews all these people and you know, near death, after death stories, experiences. There, you know, people just whatever. There's just kind of like, I don't know what to think. But this is a really.
I love how he did it, which was the production was really fantastic and the effects and everything were great. The storytelling was great. But that's the first thing that came to mind when you just asked me if anything moved me. Because it was like right when I was thinking about my mom in the afterlife, all that stuff was like, where's mom? What's mom doing right now? And then I watched that and it was really moving to see how these people from all different walks of life and beliefs all had the same story.
And I've always been hesitant to believe a lot of like, this kind of stuff. And I'm finding myself older, I get more open to it because I'm just seeing it in my life, you know, whether, you know, I was never a signs and wonders guy. I'm still not. But like, I'm opening myself up for. To more of that kind of like, oh, maybe God's, you know, giving us a peek at something. So anyways that. My answer is that I believe it's called After Death.
And yeah, it's really cool.
[00:48:19] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that.
[00:48:20] Speaker B: But I want to find out more about your films. You can tell me later if you want, but I would love to know more about what you made.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I'd be happy to.
We actually just did a.
This is a private screening of this short film, Flesh and Blood. So it's a psychological thriller, but it's. I don't know if people will pick up on this, but it's for sure Inspired by Ephesians 6:12. Our fight is not against flesh and blood and sort of deals with like mental health or spiritual. And if it's about a little girl and a story about healing, kind of so cool.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: Is it online or is it still being.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: It's not, no. So it's during the festivals and stuff. So it kind of has to. I think we're at premiering at Scream Fest in LA October, but then it's. I think it's gonna be in a lot of festivals around the US So just gonna jump in real quick. I just mentioned the premiere of our short film Flesh and Blood. So it's gonna be screening at this world famous Grauman's Chinese theater in Hollywood. October 13, 7:15pm it is a big theater, it will definitely sell out. So if you are interested in going, you can go to our films website. It's Prodigal LA Film. Yeah. On there you can see more about the film, where to get tickets about the theater and there's also like a sign up to be notified of all screenings coming, which is kind of a good way to track it. So that will be like screenings and in theaters as well as like online screenings eventually down the the road. So it's a great way to track the project and not miss anything. Once again, go to Prodigal LA Film. Okay, back to the show. But that's the project I felt like God was calling me to do.
[00:49:52] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:49:52] Speaker A: And I was like.
At one point I was like, oh, when I was really young I was like, I'm going to make Christian films. And then of course another age I was like, that's the last thing I'm ever going to do. Like shuffle.
[00:50:03] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:50:03] Speaker A: And then it's funny as full circle feeling like, oh, don't try to make Christian films. But like just honestly let your influences spill in, you know. And it's been cool to see how that's played out.
[00:50:15] Speaker B: But there's a. Yeah, I think there's, like, some really cool stuff happening in that world that's just, you know, we may not. We might have, like, rolled our eyes years ago, but I think there's just amazing. And there's companies that are now putting money into it. It's just. It's great. So.
[00:50:28] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. Kind of along those lines, actually.
You know, we have seen some good stuff. We've also probably seen some stuff that has, like, felt false to us as well.
Do you feel like there's anything that stands in the way of some of the, quote, Christian content you see, like, whether it be the music or film?
Do you have an opinion on that or any thoughts on that?
[00:50:51] Speaker B: I.
Yeah, I think, like, you know, I mean, definitely I've been opinionated in the past. You know, just. You kind of, like. I remember going to the Christian bookstore and so much just kind of crappy stuff was, you know, was kind of sold to Christians and just kind of like, okay, well, you know, if we're like, you know, worshiping the, you know, creator of the universe, this is what we're making, you know, So I do think, like, there's more of an openness, you know, going back to TK Tim Keller, his thing was like, people genuinely don't care what you believe. If it's good, if you're making something good or you're writing something that's good. It's like, you know, I think some of that now is more like. It could get weird and twisted because of our cultural moment. But I do think that, like, in general, if I'm offering something that's beautiful and really well done, you're gonna.
You'll get a chance to have it looked at to. To, you know, have someone watch it. I think there's some studios out there now that are, like, willing to make really great content that are getting more kind of like mainstream recognition, which is awesome, I think, letting artists have more of a say, I think, with. With certain things. I think that happens too, a lot, is that, you know, if you've got all these producers and executive producers and money's coming from here, there's. Everyone wants to say and, you know, it's like. It's like the last. It's like the rise of Skywalker where everyone. Everyone wanted to, you know. Yeah. All their. All their story beats and the, you know, and it becomes a mess. So I think, like, if. If, you know, truly kind of like more artist led, well produced, well funded projects, I think it's just, like, really cool because I'm seeing some of that stuff happen and perfect example is Forever Green. We were just talking about Nathan and Jeremy who worked on this film that was like basically, I mean they got, they, they did it for free for five years. They used Disney's equipment and it was a hundred percent artist developed and it's just like one of the most special beautiful things ever. And it does have a gospel allegory to it, but like you could just watch that and it just, I mean it's Iron Giant, right? I mean you don't, you know, like, I think if you.
So many films have a, you know, a gospel message that are just accidental, you know, this one just happens to be not. But yeah, yeah, no, I'm optimistic for sure. But yeah, I think in the past it's kind of like, I kind of equate it to like at a small church and you have a worship band and like they're just kind of like, hey, whoever wants to be in the band, let's play. And it's terrible, but it's like people who love the Lord. Yeah, I feel like, I feel like for a long time that was Christian. Christian, you know, media was like, hey, he can draw. Let's have him do a movie poster or whatever. So as opposed to just kind of like. I think the quality of work now is just like amazing. I think there's a lot of believers in the arts now too that are just kind of like, yeah, let's make something really, really great for the world, you know, total.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: I know, I feel like it's cool. I feel like a generation of people who grew up with some of feeling that way about Christian art are now have been working on their craft for decades.
It's really cool to see.
[00:54:06] Speaker B: It's astonishing how many folks I meet in this world that came from the church, whether they've let you know, many have left the church, but it's like a lot. And I think that says something too about just kind of, I don't know, once you leave your parents house and kind of like what happens after that is kind of a topic for another day. But like, yeah, it's interesting and I think you're right. There's a lot of people like, hey, we can do better than Salty. I don't know if you remember salty. I'm 50. But salty was like a singing Bible.
[00:54:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:54:36] Speaker B: So it was just kind of like this, you know, as a kid it was like great. I loved it, but it was like the, you know, the one thing that we listened to in the House.
[00:54:43] Speaker A: It was like, you know, okay, yeah, I like it. I want to respect your time. I have one last question.
If you feel like there's something God is kind of currently calling you towards, whether it's, I mean, just even if it's not art related or if it is either way, but something you feel called to.
[00:55:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I think like a handful of things. I think that, like I was mentioning before how I am kind of now overseeing many projects and creative directing with companies and people and kind of like all those years that I spent head down working on stuff have proved to be kind of beneficial now in this, in, in this time of my life because I'm now kind of, I'm. I'm being hired on some, some level for my mind as opposed to just kind of like what I was, you know, illustrating. So that kind of springboards until just like, okay, cool. Like maybe we could have more people helping out with Invisible Creature and take on different things and. Cool. You know, so there's that. I also, like, I'm seeing. I'm having a desire to help young creatives and we're kind of putting like some, we're starting to kind of like put ideas around what that could be cool, but like kind of like a scholarship fund for young artists that want to make things. We're kind of, we'll. We're still working on that. We'll announce it probably next year. But like, you know, you're talking, you actually asked me a question about just like, hey, you guys seem to just make things and just put it out there. And a lot of people, A lot of people don't know how to even start that and don't have the funds and, and we, you know, over the 25 years have developed some really cool friendships and know some really amazing people. And it's.
I think it'd be cool to help kind of walk alongside young creatives to kind of get their ideas made.
And I just have a, I have a heart too for young artists that are believers, that are just like, this world's crazy, man. Like, I like, you know, where do I, where do I start? Where do I do I leave this job if they're doing it? Like, just all these kind of questions. And I think I'm finding myself just wanting to kind of like dig into that space more. I don't, you know, we'll see kind of like what happens. But yeah, I'm having, like, I'm having the time of my life, honestly, just like getting to work on just some fun stuff. And I Don't know where the Lord has me going right now, but I, I definitely feel like I'm entering kind of into that like second chapter of career life stuff, which is like, has been really cool. So that's cool.
[00:57:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean you could maybe the Christianese language of it is, you know, like discipleship or shepherding or whatever. But I totally, I think that's, that's even for myself. I'm like, man, being in LA and being a believer who is so isolated and lonely now every Tuesday we have our community group and we make a home cooked meal and it's like to be this almost like mom and dad, just a faithful presence. Louisiana People leave all the time. So just to be like have a house and you can always come and eat and share, that's huge.
I feel like it's often the things that we experience along the way that we kind of feel called to help.
[00:57:58] Speaker B: Yeah. 100. 100. And in the, you know, in the end it's like, well, gosh, man, that thing is like what you just said, having a meal at your house, that that's maybe more important than the stuff you're, you know, you're working on at work. So it's just totally like, it's really like a, it's a cool thing to actually get to a point where you can acknowledge that, you know.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So cool.
Awesome, man. Can I.
Is it cool if I close this out in a little, little prayer for you?
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:58:27] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: Lord, I thank you for the work you've done and Don's life and I just thank you for his family. I pray a blessing over his family and his, his kids, his wife.
Pray that you would just empower him to hear you and be led by you like you have continued to. And yeah, just even that his community could be one that is just aligned and putting you first and everything that comes with that. Father. And I thank you that he's his desire to share and disciple and teach and just to be a faithful presence and yeah, I just pray that he would just continue to see you more in all things, Lord. Like here it is. Lord, I thank you for that. And bless his family and his marriage. In Jesus name. Amen.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: Amen. Thanks brother Sa.
