Ricky Staub | Writer & Director | Faith & Film

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey guys, hope you had a good week. If you have any suggestions on guests we should have on the show, people who will openly like, talk about faith and art and have made work that moves you, then please join those suggestions. You could put them in the comments, YouTube or Spotify or wherever you listen. There's comments. We'll check them all out. So today we're talking art and faith with Rahi Staab. He's an award winning filmmaker writer, he has his writing partner Dan Walser. The gifted duo wrote A Concrete Cowboy. Ricky directed it starring Idris Elba. I mentioned it before, but it's just, it's a beautiful film and to me there's this prodigal son themes seeping through it that are great. They came out in 2020 on Netflix and their company and their writing, they've been slammed with projects ever since. We talked to him about that. But he also felt God called him to start a commercial company, kind of commercial and film that gave jobs and training for people who were formerly incarcerated and kind of bring them into the film and commercial space. He has TED talks where he talks about that and he's on Variety's top 10 directors to watch list. More recently they wrote on the last John Wick film and there's a lot of cool projects in the works and development and we chat some about some of that stuff. I guess what's cool and I guess resumes aside, if I'm being fully honest, I just felt like God used this conversation to speak to me personally and you might even like see me. I get maybe get a little emotional during it, but it was just really good. You know, he's someone who deeply loves the Lord and seeks the Lord. I love how much practical advice came out of this. From a spiritual spot, but also from a creating spot. Without further ado, let's, let's jump right into conversation with Ricky Stubb. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I can remember very specifically when I felt like, like God became real to me. I was in Philadelphia working on a movie called the Last Air Bender. So this would have been 2008. I was an assistant to a producer named Sam Mercer. And at that time I had moved from LA with working for him in la, came to work on that movie. And it was like one of those moments in my life where I wasn't around all my same friends, same rhythms. You know, I didn't making all new friends, totally different city I'd never lived in. And I found myself telling people that I was a Christian. But I wouldn't say that my Life necessarily reflected what I know that means now, at least in my definition. And it just dawned on me, like, man, I should really investigate, like, why do I even tell people this? You know, if, if Jesus is real and died the death, he died to save my sins, it had to have been for me to be a really nice person. And a lot of that is because the people that I was working with were really nice people and they weren't Christians and they were great. And so as I genuinely started to read scripture for the first time for myself, I realized that a lot of what I was reading and discerning was quite contrary to what might be heard at a church or even seen in the news. And what news reflected as what they perceived as Christians to be, which is quite negative. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:58] Speaker B: But to me it was like, okay, this is a God that is to be experienced, not to just be understood intellectually. And so to me, the passage that has that kind of kick started it off was Matthew 25. He talks about, in the end, God's going to separate the sheep from the goats and it's going to say those that did the word and those that didn't do it. And everyone's going to say, well, when did I not do it? Or when did I do it? And he's going to say, when you did it to the least of these. And so Philadelphia, if you've ever been there, the poor, like many major cities are just right there. [00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:32] Speaker B: And I remember one morning I packed a backpack full of food and I just kind of prayed. I was like, all right, God, like if you are actually in the poor, I'd like to meet you today. And that started a months long journey with a guy named Will who was homeless, formerly incarcerated. Learning his story became pretty much the cornerstone of why I think the Lord started to give me the desire to conceive my company years later. But that was the seed of staring at a huge mountain of problems, but recognizing, here's a man who's formerly incarcerated living on the streets. There's no way in hell he's ever going to compete in the working world. And I just had a vision one night and the Lord's like, this is, this is what I want you to do. And it was probably a year and a half of me ignoring that calling until it just became like an insatiable like, nag. Like, it's like I couldn't move my life forward until God was like, you are going to quit your job. Which I was making a crazy amount of money. I'm you Know mid is living my dream by all virtues. And I feel like the Lord met that desire is like, you want to experience me? You want to know if I'm real? Here we go. And. Yeah. So then eventually sell everything. [00:04:39] Speaker A: Sell everything. Follow me. [00:04:40] Speaker B: It was. It was a call. You know, it's. It's odd. I haven't told the story in so many years now. It's like, you know, it was 14 years ago that I almost to the date was. Yeah, I always remember it was Cinco de Mayo of 2011. I left working at a studio, had my own parking spot with my name on it. Childhood dream always to work on movies, working on huge movies. And I thought I was saying goodbye to it. And I literally got in a car, drove across the country, moved into a homeless shelter where I started my company and just cried with my arms wrapped around Bible. And I was like, I think I just might have made the stupidest decision of my life. And yet here I am years later telling you, like, I'm so overwhelmed trying to get together because we have all these film and TV projects. You know, it's like the Lord rewarded me with more than I could have even dreamed to be honest. And I got to experience the Lord in just a crazy volume of ways. It's. You know, I always have to pause and just be like, it's been hard. It's been exhausting. There's been a lot of pain. But, man, there's just been like, absolute supernatural things that happened. The prayer was answered, man. [00:05:48] Speaker A: I felt like. So I felt like God's been calling me to a lot of stuff in the past year. And I feel like I was always the guy that was like, I'm going to wait on the Lord and wait for his direction and sort of like just almost never doing anything because I was, like, waiting on the Lord, you know, And I felt like, called to, like, start doing these things. I've been doing them, and I have kids. I know you have kids as well. There's times where I just, like, there's this burnout, and I'm like, okay, our burden is supposed to be light yoke is easy, or God's burden, light yoke is easy. And I. Sometimes it just gets a little confusing and blurry to me. Do you have any thoughts on that? I know you're in the thick of it right now, so maybe it's a good fresh time to ask you, but. [00:06:24] Speaker B: It'S a good question. I think it's ever evolving. Like any relationship, I would have to say that the last Couple years have been one of my more exhausting seasons of my life. And I think that I have found some profound ways to connect with the Lord in ways that did not present themselves in less exhausting ways. I'm very grateful that the Lord gave me a way to combine my giftings in just a very like one. For one, like, you now have a company that hires people who are formerly incarcerated, and you just get to keep making your commercials. Like, I've shown that that's completely possible. And there are other people attempting and successfully doing that now. And I feel like the Lord's now calling me into a new season, which I'm not even sure what it is, but I feel like that train is moving and I'm getting off of that train, and I'm asking myself, all right, Lord, will I still want to experience you in profound ways? So then, therefore, where do you want my time? Where do you want my focus and my energy? And I feel as a father that a lot of that is discipling my children, my sons, on how to experience the Lord. Now, that could be with how I navigate the highs and lows of my career, doing that in front of them. And as much as, you know, they're eight and five years old, so as much as they can understand that, but also being grateful that in this last, you know, four years of my work, I've been home more than I have in the past and have been able to invest in some really beautiful rhythms. And so I guess a long way of saying, you know, trying to evaluate, like, where am I? Not even career wise. Because sometimes it's besides the point, you know, like, you have a wife, you have kids. The Lord's never going to give you a blessing at the sacrifice of those relationships. So to understand that and go, how do I bring them into the weight of them? Probably your wife less than your children. And you know what? I'm always calculating what rhythms need to change and what practices. Like, the last several months have been some more challenging times, I'd say, making my film. I instituted this practice of memorizing Scripture because I realized that. So in this season, I'm doing it to combat any type of negative thinking anxiety. I started to realize, like, I can't unthink those things, but what I can do is fill my mind to combat them. So, like, I'll memorize, you know, whole sections of Scripture and just repeat it throughout the day. I got, like, you know, my screensavers, my current Bible, you know, I got it up there. So I'm like if I can't turn off the thoughts, I can replace them with healthier ones, you know, so. [00:09:03] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:04] Speaker B: Just trying to find different rhythms like that, which I did when I'm filming Concrete Cowboy. I had a breath prayer that I would repeat over and over and I even had this palm cross that I kept in my pocket and held on to to remind myself, like, be present, be here. You are shepherding people. This is no one else's passion project. But your, like. Yeah, you know, care for these people because it's tough, you know, it can be exhausting. [00:09:27] Speaker A: It's really good, man. That's so good. It's encouraging too. I feel like in the past year that God is similar with like the scripture just to like, you know, that talks about like the spoken word of God is how we fight, that kind of stuff. So I've been in the past, hadn't really honestly thought about that a whole lot. And I feel like in the past year there's been this call to like really speak God's scripture over anxious thoughts, over, you know, stress over these things. What's good? [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean people, I don't think take enough stock that you are your thoughts, you know, you are. It's where all our ideas come from of who we are, how we move through the world. Um, yeah. I can't stress enough how as faith is concerned, if you are not experiencing faith, you are not a faith filled person. It's just. [00:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I like what you said earlier. It doesn't work only in the analytical. It has to be experienced. It's something that you have to do versus just like learn about. You know, you mentioned like feeling like you just had like God almost like twisted your arm in a way to have to like start this company and create some of the stuff as you were doing it, doing what you feel like God called you to do, not to just immediately start off on the weird Christian train. But do you feel like there's any like resistance to that? Like whether it be like outside or spiritual resistance? I feel like sometimes we're like, oh, well, once I do what God tells me to do, it's going to be easy. And that hasn't always been my experience, but yeah. How is that for you? [00:10:52] Speaker B: I would say there have been easier moments, but I would say it'd be like saying, you know, there were easier moments during a prison sentence where it wasn't as hard. That might sound intense, but I would say the last 14 years have been absolutely brutal. [00:11:11] Speaker A: It's a long time. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And to not mistake beauty for not being brutal. Like, I'm not trying to equate myself at all as someone in a biblical scripture. Unless I get martyred at the end of my life, then everything I've done here can count. But, like, when I look at the life. I started calculating this a couple years ago, actually, like, I was frustrated because I had still that notion of, like, at some point my life should get easier because I followed the way of the Lord. Like, I didn't want to be a businessman. I didn't have crafty ideas. I didn't want to do this. So I'm like, God, like, at some point you're going to make this easy because you gave me the idea. But then as I was reading scripture at some point, and I always connect to the story of Joseph, a lot of my life, parallels to it. I'm like, here's a guy who was betrayed by his brothers, thrown in a ditch. You know, they were going to kill him, so instead they sold him. Then it's like, oh, he's rescued, but then he's put in jail again after he's been lied. I mean, dude, then he has to go through seven years of famine. It's like, just. If you actually peel the layers of that onion. I mean, the guy's life was tumultuous, not easy, you know, say, with Paul. And so I started to realize, oh, man, like, my pursuit of the Lord basically cemented that I was going to live a life that was tiring and brutal, but ultimately, like, very fulfilling, and that you got to experience the Lord. So I almost think now, man, if life is kind of easy and lukewarm, you know, from a faith perspective, maybe you aren't really. You're missing out on experiencing the Lord, you know? [00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny. Whenever I started, like, going through some therapy stuff, at first I was like, this is great. Just figuring out stuff. And I was recommending it to everybody. And then as I continued to do it and actually, like, go into the dark abyss of my soul and have to face all these things, I was like, calling everybody back. I'm like, I wouldn't necessarily do this. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:08] Speaker A: Like, I don't know. I'm not going to highly recommend it. Just freely. It's kind of like fighting your worst fear, you know? [00:13:15] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. I'm a big believer in counseling, too, though. Me too. [00:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I. I do, actually. My short film is. It's a really a big part about, like, God using therapy. But I did want to ask you, you and Dan have, like, written so much together over the years. Right. Do you feel like the Holy Spirit ever, like, plays a role in that writing process? [00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I. I mean, yes, there are times where I pray over our writing, but, you know, honestly, most of the time when I'm praying over our writing, I'm spe. I'm just thanking God that something that Dan and I did for fun in college, we now do the exact same thing and get paid enough money to support my family on it is wild to me. So usually it's just prayers of gratitude. I do think of all the parts to the filmmaking process that I partake in. I think writing is uniquely something that Dan and I are gifted in. I look at everything else that I'm good at, like directing or post process or leading people. People will probably argue, like, well, you made a movie and it's certified fresh, so you're obviously a good director or whatever. I think that writing is just who I am. It's like an outflow. Like, if Dan and I didn't get paid to write because we didn't for the first almost 15 years of doing it together. Yeah, it's just who we are. I feel like it's just the way the Lord designed me, you know? When I became a Christian at 17, I started a journal, and I've kept one faithfully to this day. Of them have run out of space in a safe. I don't even know what to do with them. I'm like, maybe I should just burn them. I don't know. [00:14:52] Speaker A: I'm like, you have to burn. [00:14:53] Speaker B: No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. There's maybe some value there. And it's very interesting to go back and see what was bothering me eight years ago or worrying me 10 years ago, because I'm like, I don't even know what I'm talking about yet. It sounds like the whole earth is falling apart. [00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker B: But this funny moment just popped into my mind. It was, like, a few months ago. We've been writing a lot of, like, action scripts lately, and it was some crazy, like, violent action scene. But when Dan came in and I'm working on this, I had just worship music playing, and he was laughing. He's like, it's just hilarious. Like, that's what you're working on, and that's what you're listening to. And I'm like, yeah, man. I just. I'm just, like, so jazzed right now that, like, this is what we have today to work on. It's so cool, you know? It's like, maybe that's just part of my worship or the Holy Spirit, how I've. How I experience the Holy Spirit. It's just like a feeling of gratitude that, wow, I get to actually do this. It's like a childhood dream I had was to write movies, and now I get to do that. [00:15:50] Speaker A: That's cool. It seems like the role of, like, having Dan as your writing partner seems pretty huge. Is a writing partner something that everybody should look for? You know, I know it's like finding spouse, right? Like, it's not an easy thing, but seems like there's this common denominator with a writing partner. Is that something you would think is like a necessary part of your path? [00:16:10] Speaker B: I don't. I can't speak for everyone. I know that. I only know, like, I mean, I've written stuff on my own, and even part of how we write is part writing on our own. I think what is most helpful, or I'd say most beneficial, is having someone that is on the journey with you that is experiencing the exact high and the exact low, particularly the exact low that you're experiencing. I feel like Dan and I mutually do a lot of almost filmmaker counseling to people that don't have partners where, like, I can tell they're just. They feel like they're wandering out in a desert and does this lead anywhere. Whereas Dan and I have faced many a deserts, but at least, you know, you can look at each other and be like, well, at least I got you out here, you know? [00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:57] Speaker B: And I have many of those moments that I've been. That we laugh at now, and things weren't as great with the company or we didn't know if our movie was going to happen. And all of a sudden we're like, wow, you go from like, top of the world to like, I don't even know if there is a world where we're doing this from a year from now. So that's what I would just recommend to anyone who doesn't have a partner or is thinking about sabotaging the partnership they do have for, like, creative interests. I think I've had to personally take a lot of stock and, like, if I get to the end of my life, is it worth it that I got to make by myself versus sharing that journey with someone? In my experience, it's been much more pleasurable to share that experience with my best friend. I also hold a theological view that I don't think I will die and God will be like, man, those three number one hits you had at the end of your career, like, well done. [00:17:53] Speaker A: You have him on repeat up here. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Well done. Yeah, I just don't. I think that Dan and I together again, the relationships on the sets and working with the people that we work with and together is more beneficial than having solo credit, which is really all that's at stake. Yeah. You know, it's good. [00:18:11] Speaker A: I think there's been a fear for me in times and working with someone where I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And then they, like, suggest an idea and maybe it's just a communication problem. And being like, in my mind, I'm like, that sounds like a terrible idea. [00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:23] Speaker A: And be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know, and so I also. Maybe it's finding the right person, but also just learning how to like. I'm also probably a little too, like, conflict adverse. It's, like, worth to have those conversations. [00:18:34] Speaker B: But yeah, I would definitely say if you're conflict averse, it's probably going to end in explosive conflict. Ironically, I've tried to collaborate with conflict averse people, and I essentially implode the relationship because I'm an on the table guy. And I think I end up terrorizing the partner because even though I put it on the table, they still keep their truth under the table. And eventually their head goes off their neck because I cut it off. And so I think what. What also makes Dan and I work is that I think he's a supreme talent in and of himself. So I have, like, utmost respect. But I also know that he believes that in me. And so if I don't like something that he wrote or vice versa, like, I don't take it as a slight. I take it as like, okay, well, how do we make it better then? Yeah. And I. And I see the fruit of that, and we get this compliment a lot. So I don't even feel like I'm really patting myself on the back. Is that everyone says, wow, your first drafts read like a 10th draft or. You know, we wrote a script once for this director a couple years ago, and he was like, I literally finished it. I gave it to my wife. And I was like, I feel like I could go shoot this right now. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:41] Speaker B: And I feel like the part of the fruit of that is because we just are constantly fighting for the best ideas as we're writing the script versus being like, I don't really like that, but let's just see where it goes. Yeah. You know, we had a woman once on a plane. We were headed to a Meeting, trying to like bang out these changes. And at the end of the flight, she stood up when we were all getting out and she's like, you know, at the first half of the flight, I thought you guys were arguing until I went to the bathroom and I saw that you guys were working on something. And then I started to realize that there were some giggles in there and all this stuff. He's like, but she's like, it was such a fascinating experience to realize, like, oh no, these guys are actually collaborating. And I think, I think that's where you just have to make sure that I think it comes down to respect, like what you're describing. I've tried to have with other people previous to my relationship with Dan being so cemented, where I would be like, I got to give this guy a win at some point. Now it's just coming off like, I think all his ideas are terrible and it's just not good. Like, you know, when Dan and I write, I'm like, if he writes something great, I'm like, dude, let's roll. There's money. Let's just go. Like, yeah, we're both getting credit anyway, so that's good. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, luckily too, like, at least for me, like, I married an Irish girl, you know, and I feel like nothing has taught me better how to do good, conflict well, you know, and work through it. So I have her to thank for that and. And I had, I should say too. I have a buddy of mine I've been writing a project with that has been great. But I wanted to ask you, what do you feel like stands in the way of some faith based movies? Like why. Why are they feel empty or why are they not working for you at least? Or are they. [00:21:17] Speaker B: No, it's a good question. I will give a disclaimer that I've not watched a lot of faith based films. [00:21:25] Speaker A: What? [00:21:25] Speaker B: So I have enough. A handful of them. And I'll say that I think they've come a long way. I think they're. You're getting some incredible actors to give some incredible performances. I would say what from like a narrative standpoint is hard for me is that it's like, I know films can be formulaic and you can still enjoy the journey, but it's hard with a faith based film where you know that the ending is this person gets saved or, you know, whatever good Christian thing we know is going to come. I think that the films have gotten better at delivering an exciting journey to that conclusion. But I would say that that's what's hard about. Let's call it a secular film or just a more mainstream film where you're not anticipating any type of faith message, but you walk away going, huh? Like, yeah, didn't see that coming in that film. So I think I'm more excited to tell stories where biblical truths are explored and defined in not obvious ways. I'm also comfortable with violence and swearing, and that's. A lot of Christians won't probably watch my films because of that. So I think more. [00:22:40] Speaker A: More well than we think, though, you know, like, often they're all watching Breaking Bad or, you know, whatever as well. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Totally. [00:22:47] Speaker A: That's good. You mentioned, like, how, let's say the gospel, for example, like, should be experienced versus just, like, analytically thought about, maybe see if you can poke a hole in this idea. But I also feel like with. Maybe it works better if it's like, you're living this life of seeking the Lord separately from whatever artwork you're making. And it almost seems like by doing that, it's almost like the analogy of, oh, let's make an apple. You're like, no, be an apple tree and soak in the sun. Take in the right things. And then apples just kind of bleed through whether you kind of want them to or not. [00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:20] Speaker A: When I watch, like, Concrete Cowboy and I watch this father washing the blood off his son's hands, and I'm like, you know, secretly weeping, like, to me, I'm like, that just bleeds in there. And I know for you guys, that might be like, oh, this is very intentional or not. But to me, that's, like, this example that excites me and that I feel like comes from under the surface, you know, I mean, versus being like, oh, we're gonna tell this Bible verse or something. Does that sound true to your experience? [00:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Is the short of it, I mean, I think who I am off the page is creating the writer that I am on the page entirely, you know? Yeah. As I navigate fatherhood, marriage, inside of parenthood, it's changing all the ways I write about that. I think I look at maybe older writings when I was less informed by experience of those things. I still see the fruits of good writing, but I'm like, there's just a maturity to what I'm creating now. That might be my own, you know, discernment on that, but I think that's what. Yeah, it's. You know, I think about that scene in Concrete Cowboy, and I love it just as much before that, where there's so much in that scene that I just wanted, you know, here's a kid who's had to fight for every inch of his time on Earth, and he's like, I just want. None of this is said, but I just wanted to feel like, what does it feel like for a father to clean him up and go, I got you from here. Like, I just want my dad to take care of it. I want my dad to. I want my dad to help me. I want him, you know, Like, I think that's, like, a really powerful feeling to make people feel without saying it. And I think it's a vision and a hope I have for my son that when shit gets hard, he's like, dad's here to clean me up, hold me, you know, maybe break in and break out some horses. I don't know. But, yeah, you know, so, like, that. Could I have written that when I was younger? Had I written stories like that? Sure. I think, though, there's just a lot of nuance. And the longer I get to be a writer and the longer I get to live a life pursuing. In my opinion, my pursuit of the Lord has only led me to meet black cowboys. I'm obviously not a black cowboy, but the way I met them was because I started a company that hired people who are formerly incarcerated, and I speak in court every year. So then I meet a black cowboy who wants to save a community one day, and I'm audacious enough to think that God can do that. Let's go write that movie. And then we write that movie. And then Idris Elba says he wants to be in that movie. I'm like, you know, the Lord's favor in that regard, the ambition, and it can never end. So I'm like, you know, I think about things that the Lord has me involved in now that my wife and I are doing, that I'm welcoming my children into. And I'm sure those relationships or that journey will somehow find its way into the art I'm making just by virtue of. That's just how it's worked in my life. You know, I think, at least in my discernment, the way that I think living, living that is pursuant of experiencing the Gospel, will lead you to be able to tell much richer stories. Yeah, I think shallow people write shallow stories. If I'm being totally honest, I think there are deep people that aren't Christians. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:26] Speaker B: But I just, like. I think there are shallow people that are Christians, you know, for sure. [00:26:32] Speaker A: It's funny, I took my family up to, like, a cabin and wanted to spend time together and have some, you know, quality time. And, like, some of them just, like, I don't know, get grumpy. And I wish I would just be, like, more of, like, a fun presence for my kids at times. And my wife, in her sweet but firm way, is like, why don't you go on a walk? Which is something that happens sometimes when you go on a walk. And we were here and I wanted to spend time with them, and for whatever reason I was stressed and grumpy and being, you know, not fun to be around. And she was like, why don't you go on a walk? And I just felt this, like, hit of shame, which is not her fault at all. She's right. I should. And so I was going on this walk, listening to music. I was praying, and I was just like, oh, God. I just like, what do I need to do? Like, what is it? This is some, like, generational something trauma. What's going on? And. And I. As I was doing this, I felt like there was this whole, like, an entire idea for a story that came to me and I was like, honestly, I don't care. I don't want this at all. Like, if I can't be kind to my family, I want God, I want to be a good dad. I want to love my family. Well, and this will sound somewhat self, you know, congratulatory or whatever, but I feel like the Lord was like. I was like, I just. I don't care about the story. I just want to be a good dad. I don't want. Don't give me more ideas. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:49] Speaker A: And I felt like he was like, well, that's why I'm giving them to you. That's why I chose you for it. And I just, you know, start weeping. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:57] Speaker A: But just feeling like that it's out of that same struggle that God will use it, you know. [00:28:02] Speaker B: But anyway, I totally resonate with that, man. I don't think I've ever, at least in my journey with this company, which has been my entire filmmaking experience, I received a good idea during a time when I deserved it. You know, I. Yeah, I totally resonate with that. And I have to remember that the greatest trick that the Lord plays on the devil or sin, or however it works, is repentance. And redemption is like the Lord's number one favor. Like, being able to use every ounce of our wickedness for his glory is to me, just such a powerful weapon. It's unstoppable. Like, how do you stop that? You know? So it totally makes sense. [00:28:49] Speaker A: I love It. I want to ask you too, like we mentioned, like, I'm fine with like swearing of violence, which is kind of my experience in my films. I enjoy as well at times. And I'm curious. As I'm talking to more and more people, to my surprise, what I find is like, there are some people that are like, well, everything is art. If it, if it's art, it glorifies God. And then sometimes it's like almost no matter what it is that seems to be the case. And I'm like, well, I don't know. I feel like there's some things I've experienced that I feel like this is like, like hurting me, you know, I'm curious if there's any kind of things that you're like, oh, I do want to stay away from this, or some convictions that you're like, oh, I'm going to turn down this job because that just like, no, that wouldn't work for me. Have you experienced any of that, like. [00:29:30] Speaker B: A certain type of story or. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, certain type of story. Or it's like, oh, this is gonna like, have like a lot of nudity. Or this is gonna have something that like, you have areas where you're like, oh, I've just found. I do feel like God calls people different, differently for different things. You know, like, some people would be like, how could you dare watch that violence? And I'm like, I like Gladiator and Braveheart, you know. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:53] Speaker A: But. Yeah, I guess. Has there been any. Anything like that for you? [00:29:56] Speaker B: I mean, I suppose, you know, if there was some story that was just had gratuitous sex for the sake of it, like, you know, you see a lot of that in mainstream work. I probably. It's weird. Like, I wouldn't say I'm opposed to it if it serves some level of purpose for the story. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Because I've certainly written scripts that have nudity, but they serve a purpose for the experience. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:22] Speaker B: There's scripts I've read that have been offered to us where I'm like, this is just raunchy for raunchy sake. And I'm like, I. It's just not my appetite. No. Yeah, I, Yeah. Not that I'm like cursing its existence by any stretch. Yeah, I probably veer away from that. I don't know anything like politically charged. I usually try to like both branded content wise and work wise. I'm like, it's just not really a conversation that I feel is befitting of. I call like activist filmmaking. Like, totally. I don't want to make a film just to prove some Democratic or Republican point of view. Like that's not the place. It's for sure not a conversation. It's just like a statement. And it's usually a backhand to someone. So that's just not my cup of tea, really. [00:31:10] Speaker A: I know. I feel like I've gotten weird all the past few years. All sorts of offers for political. But I'm like, this is pretty much just like a story form of a political campaign. It's just definitely not my. My flavor. We were talking about when ideas come. Is there any patterns you've seen when ideas come or inspiration hits? [00:31:28] Speaker B: Usually when I'm relaxing. Finally I get ideas like that makes sense. Silent car rides. Like I try to do that a lot just because I feel like my day is just a lot of noise, you know, zooms or music or this or that. So I'd say it definitely drives, working out, running or I guess now I don't run anymore. I do more. I'll do pelotons, but I'll do it with the sound off. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Because after a while you kind of get the gist. Like I stand here, I sit here. So it's like a really nice, just kind of quiet time. Yeah. Usually whenever I. I rest, I think I get the most prolific type of ideas, which I'm sure there's science to support that. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Are there any spiritual practices or routines that you spell are helpful for you? [00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I mean I'm. Everyone's different. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I get up at 4:30 every morning. Dang. So that I can have a solid workout and a solid time of prayer and reading. And my son, my oldest son also gets up ridiculously early. I've had to make him stay in bed till 5. He will join me during that quiet time. So that rhythm has been great. I just. I know it's something that I can keep holy and sanctified even. Unless we're shooting like a morning sunrise. Yeah. Most days I'm up before most people and so it's a really protected time even. Should we be on set soon here? Like a lot of the days when we're shooting, you know, maybe 8:00am I got to be in, not 4:30. You know, most normal humans can't function at that time. So I think having that sacred rhythm has been super beneficial, personally. But also in the season where it's really important to me that I'm like discipling my sons, that I like to think that as the years go on my, my Sons will always know where to find me if they need to talk to me. You know, it's the time where my son is most at ease. He's quiet with me, asks me questions. Yeah. You know, the harder time, which is also good for my boys, is at night, which a lot. This last few years, I've gotten a lot of nights with them where their kind of brains unwind and they ask questions and we're there for all the. All the fastballs they throw at us, you know, creating, like, a lot of those rhythms. I think you'll. Even as I'm talking, a lot of my focus right now is primarily on my marriage and my sons. Yeah. Because I've heard every sermon under the sun. Let's activate. You know, you'll hear me say that a lot. It's like, you got to do something with the knowledge at some point. So, yeah, at this point, I need to depart it onto my children. And I think creating those rhythms, as I like to say, if they're going to be in my house till they're 18, I can run it however I want. If I want to run it like a monastery, they got to get on board. [00:34:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:20] Speaker B: So, yeah, I'd say those. Those two pockets of time have been super helpful. And then my wife and I also, every year take a trip just for us to kind of unpack. Like, you know, she'll always have a word for the year that she feels like she's been praying about. And we'll just get time to be like, okay, how are we doing? How are we doing on parenting? How are the boys? Each of them, you know, is a time for us to just connect. Has been a really helpful rhythm, to kind of know is coming anchor to whenever that comes. It's kind of different throughout the year. Sometimes the beginning of the year, other times, like this year, it's going to be actually in a couple weeks. And, you know, we store up like, what are some good questions we want to work through? Those have been some good rhythms. You know, I just. I had, like. I don't. I don't get a lot of, like, what do you call them, Prophetic visions. Although, now that I think about it, I probably have more than a handful of people in my life. But this last year, we were going through a really hard time with the company, and I remember I was in prayer, and I've. For the longest time, basically, since I became more serious about my faith in Philly, I've had this desire to, like, go be a monk. Like, I always joke with My wife like, listen, you pass away, I'm gonna get the boys through school and then I'm gonna be like parking at some monastery. She's always like worried about who I'm gonna marry again. I'm like, I don't know, I'm not getting married again. I'm just a one and done. But I was frustrated, things were hard and I had, you know, I read a lot of Henry now and who look into him. And I just felt like the Lord gave me this like, bam. Imprint of like, you're never gonna be a monk. Stop asking for it. You are going to be the monastery to people. And he gave me this like vision of like, I'm going to teach you to walk above the waves. You're going to walk right on over them and you're going to show people peace, like amidst absolute torrential storms. Just get on board with it. And I feel like that was like a year ago. And I feel like this last year of torrential storms has just been me like learning, okay, what are new rhythms and practices to actually do such thing. And a lot of that comes around those mornings, those nights and those retreats with my wife. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Man, that's so good to me. That sounds so much like God. It's usually this call to something that sounds harder but also sort of like, well, in a perfect world that is what I would want. But how do we get there? You know, but that's cool about. I wanted to just follow up question. So in the mornings, hey, when do you go to bed? If you're waking up that early, probably. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Should go to bed earlier. But a lot of times like 9:30, 10:00 clock, you know, I mean, it's even more. Sometimes it's even super painful. If I have like a work event in LA and I get home at like 11:30, I'll usually power up. Like, I can usually hear my son get up and I'll just like pop out, throw on my robe and get out there. So I'm, I'm meeting him. So I'll cheat code sometimes at like 5:15. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:11] Speaker B: You know, get an extra 45 minutes. But yeah, it's, I, I just take, I just bite the bullet because I'm like, this is, you know, eventually he's going to move out and I'm going to be, you know, I forget how old I'd be like 52. And he. My kids are out of the house. I'm like, I can sleep in every day if I want then. And my rhythms can start at 7. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Or 8 yeah, my kids are 5 and 9, so very similar as you. And I was having that thought, too, is like, everyone's like, it really doesn't last that long. Like, even often by 12 or 13, they're like, not really that interested, and at least the interest goes down. So trying to put that in a practice of just, like, being available and asking questions. And it sounds like you. You work really hard. It sounds like that you are pushing yourself, and I always respect that. How do you deal with ambition as a believer? Sometimes I'm kind of like, a little bit suspicious or apprehensive of ambition because I'm like, am I just, like, quote, building my own kingdom or. And then other times I feel like God is like, run the race to win, you know? [00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think it's something you can turn off. I definitely wrestle with it because I would say it's something I'm in process of understanding. So I don't know if anything I'm about to say is definitive. I can't turn it off. So it exists. It's a thing. I think I'm in this position because I'm ambitious. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:34] Speaker B: I think it'd be like trying to deny the way the Lord made me. I think anyone who is successful in our industry has ambition. There might be some outliers that don't. To me, it's a level of, when does ambition turn into idol worship? You know, when does my ambition become so psychotically obsessive that I am unkind or impatient or destructive or selfish in order to acquire or achieve said ambition versus, I would say when my help, my ambition, is in check, I go, I clock in in the morning, Dan, and I pound, work hard, and I have to turn off. Make a mental note to go, like, there's nothing more to be conquered today. Go be a dad. Go be a husband. And it's something I have to practice. It's not a natural. On, off, switch and go. If things don't turn out in the way that I wanted them to, like, the Lord knows my desires. He knows. Like, can't tell you how many projects have fallen through the last four years since Concrete Cowboy, and I've had to learn that. I was like, it wasn't for lack of trying or lack of ambition or effort or talent. I was like, if it wasn't supposed to happen as, like, all right, Lord, I'm trusting you. Like, I wasn't supposed to be there. Like, I wasn't supposed to do this, this, or this. As painful as that is, I think there's again having that time where I can retreat into the mornings, that private time with the Lord to reflect and go again. My ambitions aren't my idol. Like me having number one films at the box office will not matter to the Lord when I die. I don't even know how you could argue that theologically. If there's a Christian out there, like, it will matter. I'm like, it won't. Like that is in scripture. You know about our ambitions, but I also don't villainize them. Like, I love my ambition. I love how. I love the feeling of wanting to dominate. I love the feeling of like, I can outwork you. I love the feeling that I can out talent you. I love the feeling of going into a meeting that no one thought we could win and walking out with it. I love that. So I'm like, I don't think that's. I think if it becomes my identity, then it becomes an idol. You know, an idol really is anything you sacrifice for. So if I'm sacrificing for my ambition, if I'm sacrificing my marriage, my children, my faith, my morals, then I think it's a bad thing. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Tim Keller talks about misordered loves and it's like, you can have good things in the wrong order. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that guy's an og. [00:41:06] Speaker A: He is. Is there anything currently you feel like God is calling you towards. Doesn't have to be like art or film related, but just in general. [00:41:13] Speaker B: I honestly think, think it. This is only in like, retrospect. Alongside my wife has led it. Mostly we've been with our church doing this, it's called, we call it growing families. Essentially, like pouring into people that are young families and don't know what the heck they're doing. Yeah, we don't know what the heck we're doing. But she's a great leader of like. I read a lot and tried to put a lot into practice. And our pastor was pushing us to like, kind of put together an assemble a time for space for these parents. And, you know, he said something the other day that kind of like unlocked for me in my mind, like, that makes sense. The last four years of my life when he. I stole that quote from him and he's like, the Lord's not going to bless you with anything that will hurt your wife or children. And I just felt this like, wave of like. Because our career, Dan and I has been absolutely like gangbusters since Concrete Cowboy came out. We have more writing projects that we've sold, are currently working on in development than I could have ever dreamed. But in terms of getting another film off the ground that we direct, it's like for whatever reason, it gets to like the 1 yard line and just falls apart over and over again. TV projects, everything. And I'm like, dude, I don't think we're ever going to be on set again. Like, what is happening? And I just felt, lord, be like I put a hand on it because look how you've used the last four years. You're not getting those mornings with Ali, you're not getting those retreats with your wife. You're not getting there. You're not coaching, you're not at every single event. Like the foundation that you have just built over the last four years, you aren't sitting here tonight talking about healthy, growing family practices. Like, it just like kind of hit me. I was like, oh, dang. Like one. I felt grateful, like, okay, I use the time well. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:57] Speaker B: And I just felt comfort. I'm like, you're right, dude. Like if I, if they, if I get through my whole career, my boys and I never left the home. I just. And trust me, like, this is like not a complaint because Dan and I are writing like we have non stop stuff on our plate. Since this, like through Covid, through strikes, like it's been like amazing. Like we've had our own projects even during the strike that we just like started writing on spec and like so many great, like it never stopped. And I'm like, if they left the home at 18 and then all of a sudden I started directing again, I'd probably look back and be like, wow, that was awesome. I didn't have to travel, you know, because as you can imagine with children, you know, on Concrete Cowboy, my son was three and my wife was pregnant. Is a little different, you know, now they're eight and five. It's like you're uprooting them out of an entire life system. And at this point, because no one will shoot anything in Los Angeles, I'm going to go live in some country for six or seven months and I don't want to be apart from them. So they're coming with. Yeah. So I'm just, I don't know, I felt like the Lord just was teaching me. Like, you've used your time well. This is the season I have you in. Just relax. And I just felt like this is just a couple months ago. I felt like this kind of anxiety of like, you're right. Like I'm just gonna do my thing. Like if these movies that we want to direct, get kicked off, then I'll trust that it's in your good timing because you're not going to give me anything that's harmful to them. And in the meantime, we'll do the thing that I feel like we're most gifted at and love the most, which is writing. We'll just do that and go home early every day like we do. So. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really good. There's a version of that that can just feel like, God, why are you abandoning me? Or why are you not letting this happen? And I feel like for you to see God's sovereignty on, it's really cool. It's funny you say that in hindsight. I did commercials and I've been really blessed with a good, you know, getting to do lots of commercials. And I used to be in other countries and other states for like two weeks all the time for work. And literally since I had a family, I swear, like, I pretty much only book local, like even like Germany comes to LA to shoot a Fela campaign and I get to shoot it, you know, and it's often like two days, it's like our max, you know, And I'm like, it's interesting that you say that. I'm like, I feel like it's very possible that God has done something somewhat similar in my life. [00:45:11] Speaker B: I mean, it's totally possible. I think a lot of the fruit of people who live faith filled lives is the Lord is just giving you blessings. You don't even know what to ask for. You know, like coming off a concrete cowboy, like, dude, I wanted like, let's go make another movie. Although there's part of me that didn't want to because it was so hard. But eventually I was like, yeah, I want this. There's all kinds of stuff I wanted, all kinds of desserts on the table. And you know, part of what you're sign up for, I think when you're just like truly devoting your life to the Lord is like, he might not give you things for good reason. You know, it's like giving the authority of your life to someone other than your own who actually provides more freedom for you, you know, that I can look back and go, yeah. The last four years of not having to travel for a film and completely disrupt the entire rhythms of my family is, I'll forever be grateful for that. Yeah, no, like, yeah, I wouldn't want it any other way. So. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Good. I want to respect your time here. Our last few questions, you were kind of mentioning these other projects and Directing. I don't know what all you can actually even speak to, but, like, is there one film that you're like, oh, that. This is the one that I really want to do next. If I could just greenlight my own thing that I'm going to direct, this would be it. [00:46:26] Speaker B: It's funny. I'm like. Almost like I can talk about them, whether they actually happen, even by the time you. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Well, there's a podcast out there. Someone out here that's gonna just pay for it to happen. [00:46:37] Speaker B: No. Yeah. No. I mean, we have a couple projects. What I'm most excited about. There's a couple that come to mind. There's a film that we have set up at Lionsgate that, you know, we were fortunate enough to write on the last John Wick film with Chad Sihelski as the director, and he is producing a project that Dan and I were writers on and will direct that we're now in the casting phase of that that's set up at Lionsgate. And that one is a story we wanted to tell for a long time. That was actually. It was. So it's. It's just. That one's exciting to me. It has all the kind of ingredients of things that I think kind of made, like, our short film, the Cage, really special to me. It was, like, grounded, but also has some magical realism. And then it's just some crazy action components to it, which is very exciting for us to tackle with Chad producing and all his action godlikeness. [00:47:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:36] Speaker B: And then there's some new relationships that we have with some other filmmakers that are kind of shepherding Dan and I as younger filmmakers that I'm really excited about. And then some projects in the TV space that. That's been a new entry point for us the last year. We've gotten to work with Tim Van Patten, who is most famous for his work on Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, if you look him up. But working with him on an Apple show, a limited series, but just having worked with him for the last year is one of those filmmaker pinch me moments where I'm like, wow, this is one of the greatest living directors ever asked us to write something for him. This is actually our second project with him where I'm just like, again, you know, we were driving around New York, just me, him, and Dan, scouting, and I'm sitting in the back seat, and I'm like, I'm currently living inside of one of my greatest memories, like, right now, like, I can't believe this is happening. So, yeah, there Is that that handful there? I would say. But, you know, we do another interview in six months, I could be like, yeah, none of those are happening anymore, so I have no idea. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Perfect. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:41] Speaker A: No, that's so cool, man. That's awesome. Is there any, like, resources or books or anything you'd recommend for, like, someone who seeks the Lord and also kind of feels called to create in some sort of space or another? [00:48:55] Speaker B: I've read, I'm almost finished every one of Henri Nouwen's books. I don't necessarily know how they pertain to art. If you're gonna read a Henri Nouwen book, this one's 90 pages. It had a huge impact on me actually starting my company. It's called in the Name of Jesus and it is like 90 pages. So you can read it easily in an hour. So much of my journey the last few years has been in parenting, but one that I think is probably the like, most practical guide that it's like a field man is called Habits of the Household. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good one. I've read that one. Yes. [00:49:29] Speaker B: I mean, you can rip prayers right out of it. Rhythms right out of it. That book was the first time where the guy actually, like, put into words. Something I'd struggled with was this. This concept of you can make your home a monastery. That, like the definition of a monastery back in the day was a house of love where they would actually teach individuals how to love. Like practically implement love into action. And I was like, you can create those rhythms inside of a home for children. My head exploded. I can be like head monk in my home. Thus getting up at 4:30 in the morning and being ready for my early bird child. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Yeah, and you're inspiring me. I was doing it for something very similar for a while, but I was trying to get my own alone time with the Lord. And then my kids kept waking up when I got up early. And eventually I was like, oh, well, this isn't working. And now I feel convicted and like, oh, maybe that's exactly what it should be. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Well, you know, to be honest, there's a lot of times unless I get up at 4:30 and skip the workout. But I'm also like, just the way my body works. I'm like, I have to work out. It's like an anxiety combat or. And I was like, you know what, Lord? Like, just honor. Like for instance, the way I folded in. This is super practical because I had the same problem. I'm like, I'm not getting any time alone. I'll Also sometimes have my wife ask my wife, like, can you get up earlier on a weekend day? Or whatever. You try to help each other out, but she's not a person. But I just read this amazing book called Imagine Heaven. I won't go on a non sequitur with that, but it's a fantastic book. And this guy did the largest scale case study on near death experiences on people who were clinically dead and came back to life and their experience of the afterlife. And just collected the volume of what all these testimonies from all over the world. And the headline is. The similarities are startling. And I was very moved by this book. Anyway, I got the devotional and I realized my son was really into me telling him little anecdotes from that book because I was just so blown away by these people's testimonies. So I was like, I'm gonna get this. And so with him we'll read those stories or one. There's one per day and has a prayer. And then I'll just ask him questions about. I kind of like just folded my own personal quiet time. Like I want to do this book. Yeah. With him. And then, you know, he doesn't have to really start getting ready till 7. So he gets up at 5:30. That takes us till like 5:45. It's like 15 minutes. A lot of times he'll want to go build Legos. I'll take my quiet time stuff and I'll just go sit on the ground with him and do my quiet time right in the middle of a Lego pile for another 30 minutes. And then for 30 minutes I'll build. Because I realized, you know, for him, it's like he just wants my presence. Yeah. He definitely likes when I'm building my own thing alongside him. Building. But I'll put on some worship music lightly. I'll do my reading and then we'll just build together. I'm like, that's what habits of the household taught me is like, everything can be holy. Tying your shoes, changing diapers, building Legos. You know, there's a cake and eat it too path. [00:52:32] Speaker A: Do you feel like in some of those moments you're like, this does feel holy or that I'm communing with the Lord in that Lego pile or in the tying the shoes. [00:52:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, a perfect example is I've felt that previous to this. But this Imagine Heaven book and this devotional, which now is like becoming a plug for the book, but great. It tells a story of this little girl that had sleep apnea and so she stopped breathing in. In during her sleep and she had died and was sitting with angels. And they asked her, you know, your time hasn't come. Like, we're going to. Essentially you're not. You're going back. And she talks about she didn't want to. And they're like, well, you're going to, but what do you want to do while you are here with us? And she wanted to play, I think it was Shoots and Ladders or Candyland or something. And so they actually played that game. And she said, this woman's testimony, she said years later, as a mother, she realized that, like, what that moment taught her forever stayed with her is how precious their presence was. Their only mission there was to just be with me in whatever I wanted to enjoy. And so I felt like a really. I mean, it's so wonderful. It's so quiet in our home. A little playroom sometimes. My son doesn't want music, he just wants it quiet, which I'm like, great. It feels holy. I'm like, what a special moment that is not going to last forever. It's precious, you know, So I think reflection makes it so, like, reflecting on those things for know when you're in them is helpful. Like even the moments I'm sitting in the back seat with a filmmaker instead of my ambitions, worshiping it, sitting back and being grateful and being like, wow, Lord. Like, I was 10 years old once and I wrote my first script and now I have one of the greatest living directors wanting me to write his script. Like, you know, just like one day I'll sit with my son and whatever and I'll like, remember we used to just sit and build Legos, you know, I think people just miss out on the holiness of those moments if you don't stop and just cherish them. So I would say totally a long winded way to say, like, I totally feel that they're filled with the Lord. [00:54:35] Speaker A: That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. Like, that means a lot to me as a dad with kids. [00:54:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:42] Speaker A: So good. I appreciate. Tyler, is it weird if I say a quick prayer for you? [00:54:47] Speaker B: Go for it, man. [00:54:48] Speaker A: Okay. Lord, I thank you for Ricky and his family, Father. I just, I pray that you would bless their time together, Lord, and the holiness in these. These moments, Lord. And that you are a God of the highs and the lows and the mundane, Lord. And with you it doesn't have to be mundane, Father. So I just bless their marriage, bless his family, God, I pray that you would empower his work, Father. Lord, as he tries to seek to do with excellence, Lord. It can be a form of worship to you, Lord. And even an example to show his kids. I pray for the couples he speaks with and talks with, Lord, that you would speak through him, Lord. I also just pray, Lord, for like he would feel you say the joy of the Lord is our strength, Lord. I just pray joy over him and your strength and power him, Lord. And just fill them up. Be the daily bread, Father. I ask that for both of us, Father. I thank you for it, Lord. In Jesus name, amen. [00:55:38] Speaker B: Amen. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Dude, awesome, man. I really, really appreciate this time. [00:55:41] Speaker B: Of course, of course. Get back in there with your children, man. There's a thing I've learned about kids is they are the most forgiving creatures. [00:55:49] Speaker A: It's true. They're just true. [00:55:51] Speaker B: It's amazing. So. Yeah, that's good, dude. All right, well, one day we'll have to meet in person. We'll figure it out. So look forward to checking this out.