Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Today we're talking art and faith with Josh Staub. Josh is a veteran filmmaker, production designer and visual effects supervisor for Walt Disney Animation Studios, Netflix Animation and many more. He has over 30 years of designing, directing, supervising some of the most successful animated films of all time, just to name a few. He's worked on Bolt, Tangled, Wreck it Ralph, Big Hero 6, and a small little film called Frozen. Perhaps one of, if not the most successful animated film of all time, not to mention the Oscars that it won. And he himself, he was inducted into the Academy of Motion Pictures and Arts and Sciences, AKA the Oscars, for accomplishments in the field of theatrical motion pictures. So he is a full time filmmaker, a writer, a professor at usc, a husband, a father, and he's also just a man that seeks the Lord. One thing that really jumped out to me is kind of seems to have this like open dialogue with the Lord throughout his life and not just like in his career, but also kind of in this like daily way, almost like this like open conversation I thought was really cool. So I really enjoyed this conversation. I think you will too. So let's jump in and talk art and faith with Josh Dobb.
When. When did God become real to you, Josh?
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm a fourth generation pastor's kid, literally four generations of pastors before me, and I broke the cycle, I guess.
So I, I, you know, it's one of these things where I don't feel like I have that testimony that many people have. I would say though, that God has been very real to me at many points in my life where I can feel just very clearly this sort of peace of God. And it's funny because I look back on my life and, or I look at myself and I think of myself as not being a very like, I feel kind of risk averse, my, my nature. And yet when I look back on my life, I've taken some kind of bold moves which I think is, is interesting because in those moments I felt 100% at peace doing them. And I can only attribute that to God. So like, for example, you know, When I was 18, I was at going into college and I got an offer from a computer game company. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of this company or these games, but the Mist series, and it was a startup and they asked me to come work for them and I loved school, but I felt like this was just an opportunity I couldn't pass up and I felt very much at peace with it. So I actually left school, moved into the Owner's basement and started working on the. On the Myth series as employee number five.
I met my wife there. I ended up spending 14 years there, actually, before I came to Disney. And I just felt a real peace about that. And I think it's. It's really because of my faith and just kind of like being in constant communication with God and just feeling like this was the right thing to do. I think often when I'm praying, it is, you know, I'm. I'm rarely asking, like, hey, I'd like this whatever promotion, or I want this thing to work, or I'm really usually just asking for clarity and wisdom and peace. And when I feel that, it gives me a confidence that, like, nope, this is what I should be doing. So similarly, got married, engaged at 19, married at 20. That's kind of a sort of a crazy thing. My wife and I are about to have our 30th year anniversary coming up. And then actually while I was at that computer game company up in Spokane, Washington, you know, we were very comfortable there. I could have just stayed there forever, but I. I just felt like it. I didn't really fit there anymore.
And I was feeling called to, which was really my first love, which was film. And both my wife and I, you know, we prayed a lot. I got this opportunity to go to Disney, and so we left this very comfortable space and moved to la. And a lot of our friends and family who were up in Washington, I'm sure were like, what are you doing? Like, everything is great, like where you're at right now. But I think it was kind of like it was almost too great. It was too comfortable, and it just didn't feel right anymore. And I'm just so grateful for kind of the peace that we had that was like, no, this is 100%. There is no doubt in our mind. We have this confidence that it was the right thing to do. So I guess it's those kinds of moments that I really look back on my life and feel God's presence so clearly, and I'm grateful for that.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's interesting. So from hearing you just now, what you're saying, like, it seems like there is this. It almost sounds like a dialogue between you and the Lord for people who want to feel like, I want that and I pray. But what does that actually look like practically for you? It's like from on the spectrum, right? Do you hear, hear God's audible voice? Or is it like you mentioned this peace?
How do you know that peace is the Lord? Like, what has. What has brought you to that conclusion over time?
[00:05:04] Speaker B: It's a really good question. I mean, I do think it is kind of more of a constant communication than like a blocked out period of time. I often, I ride my bike every day. I'm like, I'm a cyclist every morning. And I find myself very often talking with the Lord on my bike, you know, eyes open, thankfully. But like I'm on my bike and I. Yeah, I'm just having this kind of dialogue or basically giving things up. And you know, it doesn't mean that I don't feel like I. I hear an audible voice. It's more just kind of like this sense of calm.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: And peace about things.
That's how, that's how my experience has been.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe that track record over time, that piece, it's become a familiar.
Almost like the sound. If that piece sounds familiar.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: I think so.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: That's interesting. And then just to jump back a little bit. So I'm just thinking as like pastor's kid. I think I'm qualified as a pastor kid as well. Was there ever a time when you're like, is this real? Is this for sure real? Or do you feel like it's just like day one?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: So it's funny because I can get into the more specific. So I am a pastor's kid, although my, my parents divorced actually when I was 2, and I grew up with my mom and stepfather and then I spent summers with my dad and stepmother.
And there are definitely moments, you know, I don't share this story often. It's not like a radical thing, I don't think. But I remember a specific moment when I was little, maybe six or seven years old, riding my bike with my dad at a schoolyard. And I was just learning how to ride, like without training wheels. It sounds so cliche, but I was, this is what was happening. And it was like on a Saturday, nobody was around. And I remember something broke on the bike. And I actually believe I was the one who said to my dad, like, well, let's pray about it. Like, maybe somebody will, will help us. And I, I remember talking about, with my dad later about this, that it actually kind of terrified him.
Cause it was like, oh, no, here's this moment where I have this, you know, this faith of a child. And I want this to actually happen.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Because it could be a seminal moment.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: And my recollection is there was no one around and all of a sudden someone drove up for some other purpose. And my dad walked over and was like, hey, do you happen to have any tools? And it was like, yeah, I got. I got tools. What do you need? And so fixed my bike. And we were just back at it.
And I think, again, the faith of a child. It's like, yeah, of course.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: But I think the pastor is actually like this. How is this gonna. So, you know, I've had moments like that where I can only just say that the Lord has.
Has blessed me in these moments where it has. It has led me to a place where it does feel more like kind of a constant conversation.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool. It's very cool. I always love hearing that as well, because, you know, there's. There's all versions of that story. But I do feel like. I feel like often. It's funny, with a lot of the artists I talk to, it seems like it often feels a little bit less of a leap for them than it does for some people. They're like, just to believe, you know, Maybe it's the imagination and the creativity or what. But, yeah, I was curious. Just even in your. In your work, from the different roles, you know, you've done, from directing to production design to visual effects supervising, is there one. I have a suspicion of the answer already, but is there one that you sort of feel like is the most life giving for you, or maybe you feel the most called to.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Boy, that's a really hard question. I think.
I think Caleb's going to like this answer.
I think writing to me is sort of the most direct feeling of, like, this is my direct, like, soul on a page.
The movies that I work on, like, at Disney, you know, there's 400 people working on. On a movie. So it's. It's a lot more about wrangling cats and, like, trying to keep everybody on the same page. But when you're just alone, which can be lonely, so it's not all great, but, like, when you're alone and you're writing, it just feels very pure. It's like this essence of just, like, I'm just putting everything out there that just, you know, and it's gonna evolve and it's gonna change. Thankfully, I. I've had the opportunity to, you know, play a lot of different roles. So I feel like at each of those stages, for me, every stage is about storytelling. So if you're not storytelling and you're the lighting supervisor or you're the VFX super, whatever, you're really not doing your job. Like, you have to really understand the story and try to, like, do your part to make sure that it's clear and it's as, as impactful as it can be. But I would say writing, you know, in a way is sort of the most cathartic. It just feels like it's so pure and there are times writing where I'm just like weeping, you know. So it's that kind of, it's that kind of thing, I think, I think it's unique. I actually don't think writers get enough credit for what they do in the industry for sure.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: I'm jumping in right here to talk about the importance of writing in the stories. I really do feel like that is the next level factor in some of these stories. And the goal of Prodigal is to empower artists of faith to create honest and beautiful work. So one of the things I found in talking to actually really talented working writers who do love the Lord, I found that here in Hollywood and Nashville and other places. It's like, oh, I have this story I would love to tell, but it's, it's a little too dark at moments for the faith based world, at least as it is. And then it's like, it's too like faith influenced for a lot of the mainstream space. And they're like, I would write it, there's just no demand for it. And I think we can change that. And even at the origin ideas of Prodigal, the nonprofit, you know, we put out this art and faith podcast was to do this, which is let's help create the demand for these types of scripts and let's help curate them and find them and get them seen. So we're going to change the demand issue by doing the world's biggest screenwriting prize contest in history. So we're going to do this with these types of stories only. We're ended with script contest and the winner gets $100,000, no strings attached. They don't have to make it through us or anything like that. It's just, it's a gift. And this will help create the demand, obviously and help curate these scripts and for even for other people to find them and make them. And so we're just kind of publicly launching this and it's going to take time to raise that 100k. But I've already had donors saying I want to donate to this kind of on a monthly basis and 100% of the prize money will go to the writer. We take nothing. So if you care about this kind of thing and these types of stories and believe in what God wants to do in that space in the description there is a link to. It's Prodigal la donate and you just choose the Prodigal script prize option. And so Prodigal is a nonprofit, a 513C. So all donations are tax write off. So anyway, I'll keep you updated as money comes in, but just something I'm excited for. And so anyway, let's jump back in.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: My wife also works in film. She's a makeup artist. And she does that where she thinks through like, what is this person's fingernails going to look like on day three of this particular week of this particular story. All that detail. It's storytelling.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: But she has something to work with, which is the script. And almost everyone has something to work with. And it's usually the script that starts sometimes storyboards. And so it's terrifying to be that person who's facing the blank page and just thinking, I'm trying to create work for a thousand other people.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: And to not get lost in that and to just get lost in sort of the joy of creation or the.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Yeah, well. And it's creating from nothing.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Like it's vulnerable. Vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you actually brought up storyboarding because that's something also that I think people are not super familiar with. Like, with animation, you know, with live action, this, the. The screenplay is the blueprint. Right. With animation, the animatic, which is the story reel, is the blueprint. And so even though there's that purity to the writing when it goes into story, I mean, at Disney, we'll do. We'll make the entire movie in a story reel eight or 10 times over the course of three years. And it's continuing to evolve. And you really don't know if it's working until you see that animatic. So that is a. Makes it a little bit different. But at that moment, it is a collaboration, which is also beautiful. Like, obviously that's really where you get so many. It becomes so much richer because it isn't just one voice. It's like many voices. And you're getting other people's backgrounds are kind of like influencing the work. But definitely there's something just sort of, I think, beautiful and unique about just sitting down and writing.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: You know, is there a particular project that you're most proud of? Whether it's just sort of, whether it's the final product, like I was part of that, or your particular contribution to something like feeling like I really made a difference or I leveled up in some way there. Do you have any Particular.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I get that question a lot. And it's funny because the way that I look at it, honestly, and I'm sure you guys have experienced this as well. There's different kinds of sort of being proud. Like, different projects you're proud of for different reasons. Right. Like having been a supervisor on Frozen and Tangled. Like, these are films that everybody in the world has seen, you know, many times, often.
And there's something about that. Like, no matter where I go in the world, Frozen is, like, part of me, you know? Like if in a future generation or previous generation, if you were an animator at Disney and you worked on Lion King, like, that is going on your epitaph.
And I feel like, for me, Frozen is at least one of those things that's going on there. But at the same time, for me, as a creator, it's actually more about the experience of making the project. Like, those are the things that are most memorable to me. And I loved Frozen. Loved, you know, the people working on it. But there's other projects that definitely have a different place in my heart because of the team itself and because of the experience or kind of like what we overcame to actually get it done.
So one of those, I would say, is Feast. I don't know if you know that the animated short Feast, There were a lot of challenges there. The look was something really different. It's a smaller, scrappy team. When you're making a short, it feels like making a project in college kind of. It just. It's a different animal. And that was really special. But then probably before that, for me, was I made an animated short while I was still at the computer game company. I made this short because I felt, again, this pull that it was time for me to leave and it was time for me to go into film and animated film specifically. And so I set about making this animated short.
It's called the Mantis Parable.
And I did the entire thing on my own, not because I was the best person to do every part of it, but simply because I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could about the process.
And I spent 18 months while I was still working full time as art director for that company, like, poking away at it one or two nights a week. And that just.
That is so personal to me to have worked on that project. And it really opened up so many doors for me.
But even more so, the theme of it, like, the story of it, is really about grace. And it was a story that I wanted to tell for my kids and my kids at the Time were like, you know, five and seven years old or four and six years old. So it was very personal. I mean, I wrote the score, I did the anime. Like, I did all of it.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: You wrote the music too.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: You played the music, wrote the music, animate, like, and I don't know, like, Again, features take 400 people to make. This was like one person working above, above my garage. And it definitely, it opened up a lot of doors for me. It qualified twice for an Academy Award nomination. I ended up having meetings with Pixar and Disney and Blue sky, like, all these studios.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Again, it was just kind of this confirmation, like, okay, this is really what I should be doing. But it all started because I had this simple little story that I wanted to tell for my kids. And that makes it uniquely special.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: You know, that's cool when you talk about the story you wanted to tell for your kids. So at some point this story came to you. You were a little inspired. Moment. I'm curious, do you find any patterns to the moments you feel inspired? Like, you mentioned, like, if you're on your bike, do you find lots of time or.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: I definitely would say, like, today it is on my bike. Like, today.
Today I'm a professor at USC film school also, so I'm lucky enough to have a lot of mornings available. So a lot of my job is to get up early, ride my bike to a coffee shop, work, ride my bike back home. I pinch myself every day. I can't believe that's my job now, but I often find myself, I'm writing while I'm riding in my head so that when I get there, I'm actually. It's more of just like I'm brain dumping what I've already kind of done.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: And then after I've done that, I'm riding home, I'm like fixing all the things I just did in my head. So I think that's kind of part of the. That's part of the process for me. I am also a firm believer. And this quote has been attributed to many different people. I don't know who actually said it, like, Faulkner, Twain. Like, I know many people have supposedly said this, but I only write when inspiration strikes. And thankfully it strikes at 9 o' clock every morning.
I just love that idea because it's like, do the work. Like, just like, even if you're not feeling inspired, you know, inspiration happens when you, like, sit down and do the work. And for me, it's rarely, like, I'm just randomly like, not thinking of anything. And it's like. And then I go to go jot it down. It's less that. It's more like, okay, it's time, let's get to work. And you know, sometimes it's staring at my screen for a while, but other times it just like feels transcendent. It just feels like, you know, I'm just going, you know. So I'm, I'm a big believer in kind of like having. Putting yourself on a schedule. Like even that the short film I was talking about before, I think, and this is something I would tell, I do tell to actually my students, but to a lot of people who are trying to take on a project that is challenging. Every project is challenging, frankly. But there's always obstacles. There's always. You're always going to hit brick walls and, like, not know how to get over them. And the thing that I did for this short is I set aside every Monday night, like after my wife and K went to bed to work on it, like, no matter what. So that meant that even though at the time it felt like, oh, that's Josh's like, hobby or like part time thing, he this cute thing he's doing. Like, no, I made it a job. Like, that was time. So if friends wanted to get together, whatever, it's like, no, that's my, that's my time. I have to work on it. And what that allowed me to do is it let me know that every week I was going to have that time. So if there was a given week where I didn't make much progress or I spent most of my time just banging my head against the wall, it was kind of okay because I knew I had next Monday, you know, And I think a lot of times people set about doing projects and they get burnt out. I mean, I'm sure you guys know this. Like, this is so common. You get so excited. You're like running on adrenaline. You're, like into it so much and you work so quickly on it. You make a lot of progress and then you hit a wall and you're like, now what do I do? Like, how do I actually overcome this? So that's another thing I'm kind of a believer in is just like, you know, put these stakes in the ground and just stick to them and then you can kind of just let go a little bit and just like, you know, know that you have that time. If you have other time to work on the project, great. But if not, at least you have that time.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: That's good. Yeah. I think even zooming out Even on that, what I've seen in my own life is like the idea of a process based goal versus just like just make a film, make an animated film. It's like just to be like, oh, my goal is to work every Monday in this time slot.
And that no matter how much you hit your head against the wall or write a whole script, you're like, I accomplished that goal either way.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah, you did. The thing, the thing is to sit there. It's like actors talk about. They have many of them. I'm sure you've heard this as well. They have this mindset of the job is actually the audition.
Show up to the audition and do the audition. Now if you get that, if you get that gig, well, that's amazing. But that's a bonus. Your job is to go do the audition, prepare for the audition, learn the lines, go do the audition. Great. You did your job. You know, it's kind of like that sort of mentality. You have to kind of switch it. If you start thinking too, in too big of terms about the entire project, it gets overwhelming and it feels like I'm never going to get there. Like, how is this going to get done? You know?
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:21:49] Speaker C: I'm also a big fan of staking out space. Sometimes staking out space works better for me than staking out time.
The first screenplay I wrote, I had a month to do it and I rented an office for one month so I would have a place to do it. And then my rule was I just had to go there every day. If I wanted to turn around and come back, I could. It was five minutes from my house. It'd be a whole 10 minutes wasted. No big deal. I did that one day, but all the other days I was like, well, I'm here, I might as well try something.
And yeah, it got written in a month, but it was. The space was a big deal for me.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: I get that 100%.
I don't know if you've read Stephen King's book on writing.
Great book, brilliant. It's amazing. And he talks about like, find. It's so practical. There's just some really basic practical things. And one of them is he talks about like, find a place that has good juju, I think he calls it. Like, it's that desk in that room. Like, whatever it is. I'm kind of at a similar point in my. In a project that I'm developing right now where it's like, I'm starting to think, like, I may need to sequester myself for some period. Of time and just, like, focus on it. Because it's just. There's too many. Too many distractions, too many other things that I could be pulled towards it. It's making this thing not happen. So, yeah, I totally get that. Yeah.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: There's someone. I can't remember, Tim Ferriss, Josh Waitzkin someone, but they talk about going into monk mode, and they have, like, a. They have an automatic responder on their email saying, I'm in monk mode right now until I finish this book. You'll hear from me then.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Good.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a good idea.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: You mentioned, like, at times it's hard. Other times it's just like, you know, just comes. I'm just curious. Do you believe the Holy Spirit plays a role in the creative process? And also, if you. You know, that phrasing is strange, whatever, however you think of it is fine. But, yeah, do you feel like that, you know, God is in the. Can be in the writing process, and, like, have you experienced that? Or is it like two kind of two separate things? What is that like for you?
[00:23:48] Speaker B: No, I definitely do. I mean, again, I don't feel like, oh, I'm taking it verbatim, and I'm like, okay, what's the word I should use? Like, I don't feel that necessarily. I would say when I'm getting the sense of.
Well, there's a couple of ways to think about it. Like, there's definitely the sitting down and kind of like. Like, an athlete thinks about being in the zone. Like, there's definitely times like that. I'm sure, again, you guys have experienced this where it's like you're. You sit down to write something, and it just kind of flows out of you, and you have those emotional moments where maybe you're literally weeping because you're just like, it's all making sense. And then you look up and you think it's like an hour later and it's been five hours, you know, And I.
I think I would attribute that to the Holy Spirit. Like, basically just kind of like this transcendent moment. But there's another one. I would say that sometimes this is less about the actual, like, practical sitting down and writing. Or for me, it could be writing, could be painting, could be drawing, whatever.
Sometimes when a project is pulling me that there seems almost no practical logic to it, like, why it makes sense for me to do it. But again, I have this sense of, like, no, this is the step I need to take. And I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm gonna dive into that.
And I. I've had that happen a couple times, and I can't attribute that to anything else except just kind of like a prodding from the Holy Spirit or like just this sense, again, of peace, of, like, that's. That's what you need to invest in. It's the only way I can really describe because again, it kind of makes no.
In that sense, it makes no, like, practical sense either. Either for my, like, career or, like, whatever. It's just like, no, but that's what I need to be doing.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: So, you know, there's a heavy aspect of belief. Right. Whether it's like, I believe this is the time to make Mantis parable.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: Like, it could have been in the past 12 years, but for some reason, this is the time. Or I believe this is the story to tell. Even though when I mention it, people don't quite get it yet. You know, things like that.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I definitely. Yes, I definitely have that. The project I'm working on right now, actually, a couple things I'm doing right now have a lot of that, I would say. Yeah, that's.
That's definitely.
That's definitely how I feel. Or that has happened to me, for sure.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: Interesting one.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Sorry, one thing.
This is a little bit of a tangent. Maybe it's not a tangent. I don't know. You guys deal with it.
[00:26:30] Speaker C: We welcome tangents.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. You know, as a Christian, this, I think, something that I think probably everyone wrestles with who's really trying to turn their life over to God and just, like, be a vessel. There's this sense of, like, waiting, like, waiting for the kind of prodding, and I believe in that. But I. I also feel like it can be. Maybe this is controversial. I feel like that can be a cop out at times. I feel like I'm a big believer in, like, get good at your craft. Like, just put in the 10,000 hours. Like, just, you know, it's more. For me, it's. It's less about waiting for, like, the opportunity and more about, like, prepare yourself.
Like, be ready for the opportunity.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: You don't know when it's going to come or if it's going to come, but do the work you need to do to get good at your craft so that you can be used. And I think that is so important. I think we live in kind of an era where people. It feels like so random. Like, people get amazing opportunity to just come out of nowhere. And I think people can almost feel like they're relying on that. Like they're just waiting for that moment. I am a big believer of, like, you know, if you're passionate about what you're doing in the craft, like, get great at it. It's hard, but, like, it's not the kind of thing that a lot of people want to hear. Like, again, I'm a professor at usc. It's not like, the advice people want. People want, like, the answer. Like, how do I get the connection? Like, if I only had the person that was at the company, they could just, like, bring me in. It's like, you know what? I firmly believe if you do great work, people are gonna wanna work with you, you know, so prepare yourself for when that opportunity comes.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: I don't think that's controversial at all. I think that that's just under said. Right.
As people who are wired to be storytellers, we tell ourselves stories too. We tell ourselves the story that I don't need to do anything but this one project and meet this one person, and that will be it, you know, and we tell ourselves the story of O came out of nowhere. Although if we really look, we realize they spent 10 years perfecting their craft before anybody heard of them.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:46] Speaker C: And, you know, one thing that I found myself saying a lot when I was working at a church, sort of doing vocational ministry was calling's not a guarantee of success. It's an invitation to faithfulness.
And that's where you grow your craft like you are. If you're called to be a writer. That means be faithful at it. And it's usually the fruit of faithfulness that leads somewhere, not the calling.
But I'm curious, do you have any advice or wisdom for people who are trying to figure out, am I really supposed to be waiting right now? Because sometimes that is what we're supposed to be doing versus am I supposed to just be working with what I've got in front of me? And.
Yeah. Do you have any advice for people to be able to tell when they're procrastinating versus actually waiting or what have you?
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different things I could. A lot of different directions. I guess I could go with that. For me, first of all, it goes back to that sort of being in constant communication where those times that I felt so much at peace with. With pretty significant decisions led me to feel like this is the right. This is what I should be doing. And no matter everything that people would said about, like, why it didn't make any sense or like, but you're. You're in such a Good place now, like, why wouldn't you.
It was all just noise, and it was actually really easy to block out, you know, just because it, it was so clear to me. So I guess the, the advice I would give is really just, I, I. It's gonna probably pour salt in the wound to so many people who are in that wave who are like, but I'm doing that.
It's just that, like, asking for clarity and wisdom, you know, and when you're not hearing that clear voice or clear direction, you know, just keep getting better at your craft and being in that waiting mode. You brought up something that I. This may not be on your agenda to talk about, but I do think it's actually really important. You use the word success. And I think how we define success is really interesting. You know, so many people, Christians, again, come to la and they're like, what's going to mean that I did. The thing that I was supposed to do by coming here is because I, whatever, I sold that project or I did that amazing thing, or I won an Oscar or, like, whatever. I just wanted to share. I've had some different, pretty different thinking about that in the last few years because of some experiences, you know, I, I left Disney, had another very sense of, very strong sense of clarity that it was the time for me to leave Disney. I went to Netflix for two years and worked on an animated feature there. I could have stayed at Disney forever, but it definitely felt like, no, this is time. So I went to Netflix, had absolute clarity. And my couple of years at Netflix, I poured myself into the project. But it was hard. I mean, it was, like, grueling. And I'm proud of all the work that we did.
But at the end of the project, I was so. It was rough. Like, I kind of was just like, I gotta jump ship. I. There's just, it's, it's affecting my health. It's just like. And you could look back at that and say, well, was I wrong? Like, was I wrong? Did I not hear that properly? Like, leaving Disney to go to Netflix? But something completely different happened as an outcome to this that I think, you know, we attribute, like, success or, like, what to a certain thing. But I have grown in this belief that it is more about things that we don't necessarily deem as success, but are actually way more important to the Lord, which is relationships. And when I was on this project for Netflix, there was a woman in my art department who was from Ukraine, and it was a global team of artists. We were all on Zoom. Anyway, but she became a friend, and I thought she was super talented. And when war broke out in Ukraine, she had already rolled off the show. And I was really terrified for her and her family, like, what was going on. And so I started to write her, and she was giving me, like, hour by hour updates about, like, what was happening, and it was terrifying. And a couple months, I basically went to her and said, look, if there's anything that I can do, if you ever feel like you want to leave Ukraine to just, like, get out of there, like, she was in Kiev and, like, hearing bombings.
She. She was like, no, no, you know, my family's here. Like, we're gonna stay here. And then one night she was like, we gotta go. Like, is there anything you can do to help us? And I was like, well, I don't know, but we're gonna figure something out. And two weeks later, she and her husband and her dog were able to get out. I met them at lax. Never had met them in person, picked them up at lax. And my wonderful mom, who lives in. This is a long, specific story, so.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Oh, that's great.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: She.
My mom lives in Canada half the year and down here half the year. And I asked my mom during that period, like, hey, if. If this happened, like, if I needed to put somebody somewhere, could they just stay at your house just for free? And she's like, absolutely.
So this family came in, they lived with us for the first few days, then lived with. Lived at my mom's house for six months. And during that period, I worked to try to make some connections with her. And now she's at Walt Disney Animation Studios, and she's an art director. And so it's like this thing that. I don't know. I don't know why I ended up at Netflix for two years, but I do know that for me, personally, the greatest thing to come out of that had nothing to do with my job. It actually had to do with a relationship.
And now they're dear friends, you know, So I feel like we maybe have ideas about what success is or, like, what I got to get this promotion I got to get. And I more and more feel like it's not about that. Probably for the Lord. Like, it's. I don't think, you know, like, well, you could have done this great project. You would have won this award or whatever. Or, you know, you could have. It's like, who cares?
[00:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Like, at the end of the day, like, what kind of relationships did you make? Like, who were you able to help? Like, who were you able to build friendships with and. And be somebody that they could rely on. Like, those kinds of things, I think are just actually so much more real and of value, you know?
Anyway, I've got many stories like that, but it's just really hit me the last couple years that, like, I don't think we think about success the way the Lord thinks about success.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:35:18] Speaker C: I love that, like, everything we make will pass away, but the people we work with to make it won't, right?
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Yes, 100%.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Even in the vote towards the camp of redefining success, Even, like, as someone who's. I was, like, very inclined to analysis paralysis and someone who's very, like, you know, I would say I put myself originally in that camp of, like, I'm just waiting on the Lord, you know, but the truth was, it's sort of like there's this fear that was there.
And I think that a time came when I feel like the Lord told me to do this passion project, to do this film.
And I was scared, but I was also like, but faithfulness is doing what it says.
And so when success became just being faithful to it, that got me through so many hardships in that process because I was like, well, I don't know. This is as good as I want it to be yet. And being like, well, what's the goal? Is the goal for it to be good, or is the goal for it to be. Be faithful to do it the next step that God calls you to do with this. And I feel like the irony is way more has been made. I've made way more trying to be faithful than I have trying to make things, you know, not that that's always the case, per se, but I do think it's just the Lord has a plan, and that can be relationships, you know, that can be the way he wants to move, you know. And so I just think that's so encouraging to hear that too. I think it's so true. It's like, God loves his children, and it's like, if you love me, feed my sheep, take care of my sheep. You know?
That's cool.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: I wanted to ask you as well. Well, I guess one thing I'm hearing you say that I think is actually pretty unique. That seems unique about you is you're talking about this kind of this open dialogue with the Lord. And I don't know if that's as common as we, you know, may think that it is. And it's all throughout the Bible. Right. It's like pray without ceasing. You know, that sounds impossible. Unless prayer was a little different than I thought it was. You know, it's more of this, like, throughout the day process. You know, it's like in all circumstances, you know, give thanks. So, like, there's sort of this, like, it's like the we're on, we have an airpod in with the Lord all the time type thing.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: And it seems like that's something that, you know, do, does that sound a, does that sound accurate?
[00:37:32] Speaker B: I think it sounds accurate. I mean, I certainly, I, I, I wish that I could pray without ceasing. I, I feel like also throughout the Bible, there's very clear, like, this is how you should pray. Yeah, so that's true.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: That's a good point.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: And I feel like I, I'm probably not as good at that. Like, I, I, I'm not. For me, I think if I get too much. And again, this is me. I'm an imperfect, broken person. I'm not as much the, like, set aside the specific time for my quiet time. And there's a lot of times where I wish I was. And I admire people that do that faithfully. I think I am more of a person that recognizes in myself, like, oh, this is the moment I need to reach out.
Like, for, for me, very often too, it is. I found myself needing to do this a lot still. But when going into meetings, I often would, like, pray as I'm like, going into a meeting. And it's not about, it's actually not about, like, let this meeting go well or let us have success with the outcome of this meeting. It's actually more about, like, let my ego get out of the way. Like, let me just not enforce, like, try to enforce my will on this meeting. Like, let me just be who I'm supposed to be in this meeting. Because I can sense myself, like, getting agitated or like, oh, this isn't going the way that I wanted. And, but I'm the supervisor and I, I need to be like, put my foot down. Like, this is like, get, help me to not be that way. You know, help me to just be open to listening to others in the meeting, you know, like, it's as simple as that. So it's, for me, it's less of a regimented thing. And maybe it should be more of that, or maybe it should, probably should be both. But for me, I think it is more of a, you know, knowing when I'm dealing with anxiety in that situation, knowing when I'm at risk of like, being somebody who I don't want to be totally. When I'm about to enter a room, you know, like, it's, it's more about that. It's more about, like, softening my heart, like, getting me out of the way. I think in a way it's, it is like a pastor. You know, when pastors go up and they're going to give a sermon or something, they, they often talk about, like, or pray, actually. Just let me be a vessel. Like, let it not be my voice. Let. Let it be yours. And I feel like that's a constant thing for me is, like, trying to get out of the way.
So in that sense, it's, it feels like it is a constant thing because I'm always in situations like that. I got to try to not be that way, you know, And I can't do it on my own, like, on my own strength, because my human nature is going to want to, like, enforce my will.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Sometimes I will pray to be like Balaam's donkey, because donkeys don't say anything unless God gives it to them to say.
But you brought up a couple of things that have got me a little bit curious. You know, you mentioned preachers preaching, which they do from scripture, and you mentioned quiet time, which for a lot of people involves Bible reading.
And I'm curious what your relationship is as a storyteller to scripture, which is 90% story.
I was even reading recently someone was saying, like, even the law codes are embedded in a narrative. And it's the only, only ancient law code or any law code that's done like that for a nation.
And the narrative doesn't make as much sense without the laws, and the laws doesn't make as much sense without the narrative. But there's this highly narrative nature of scripture. It's mostly story. And so I'm just curious how you as a storyteller relate to it. Because I'm like you. I don't have a very structured relationship.
And so I'm just curious what that, what, what that relationship is like for you.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Yeah, for me, this may be super obvious, but like, for me, I love, love, love the fact that Jesus spoke in parables, like, to me, is so, like, I. When I think about film and why film, I think, can be so powerful, it's rare. The films that I find powerful are rarely the ones that are, like, obvious. Right. Like, it's like this is the, this is the structure. This.
It rolls out this way. Like in the first act, you kind of know where it's Going like, I actually much more interested in the mystery. Like, I actually think a lot of. Again, this Paul does maybe a tangent, but I watch a lot, as I'm sure you guys do. I watch probably between 150 and 200 films a year. I'm an Oscar voter, so I, I take that role very seriously and I, I'm on the international jury and I, my favorite films every year are our international films. And I think generally they just do a much better job of like stripped down storytelling that leaves a little bit of mystery. You know, one of my favorite directors, he's, he's a Pixar director, Andrew Stanton. He has this great talk about your audience, like the best stories. You actually want your audience to work for their meal. You just don't want them to know they're doing it. I think that's such a great phrase. It's like your audience is bringing something to it and you have a thing that you want to say and it's going to be different for everybody. And I think that applies to like these, these parables where some people, it's like, I don't get it. Like it's not resonating or I don't understand what you're saying. But I think if you, with the parable, like, if you, if you have a soft heart and you recognize that, like, wait, maybe I'm that person in the parable. Like, maybe I'm the bad guy in the parable, then it moves you. Like it, it actually resonates with you. There's a really good book. I'm a fan of William Barclay's writings and he has a whole book on just like the parables and storytelling.
So I highly recommend it.
[00:43:21] Speaker C: Love Barclay. Love Barclay.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Okay, cool.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: What's the name of that book? Does anyone.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: I think it's just called the Parables of Jesus. I'm pretty sure I can find out and, and get it to you. But like all of you search parables.
[00:43:35] Speaker C: And Barclay, B, A R, C, L A Y, it'll come out.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's the same thing. It's actually the same thing. If you read his writings on the gospel and on Acts and like it's, he's, he's a master storyteller too. And so I, I, I get so much more out of it when I can go through that. And basically I think it's listening to a storyteller help sort of give me an interpretation that it's talking to me, you know, who is a storyteller so highly recommend it.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Cool question. I Wanted to ask you. This is a little bit of a turn, but it's interesting to me because it's became real to me at times. But have you. I don't know if maybe it's different in animation as well, but do you feel like you've ever had to turn down work because of the subject matter or I should even say just turn on work because of conviction of any sort?
[00:44:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there have been a couple times there.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: Can you name their names and pro.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: No. There was a project before I went to Disney, when I was talking with a bunch of different studios, there was a project that would have meant moving my family to Luxembourg for a couple years to be production designer on an animated feature. And the idea of moving to Luxembourg. I love to travel. I love. You know, and my wife and I thought about, like, we would love to live overseas, you know, for some period. So there were a lot of things that attracted to me about it or that were attractive to me about it, but I ended up telling them no. And it was because the subject matter was just, you know, it wasn't offensive, but it was dark. It was just pretty dark. And I. My kids were a certain age where I just was at a point where I felt like I want my kids to actually. A, I want my kids to be able to see what I'm working on. And B, I realized it was kind of like protecting my own heart. Like I would be designing characters that might give me nightmares. And I. I just didn't want to marinate in that, you know, like, for a period of time, I just felt like. And again, this. This doesn't mean that those films are bad. I actually think you need dark to see the light. Like, I. I totally get that. It's just for me personally, it wasn't the right fit for me. And it's one of the reasons, actually, I went to Disney, I think, because I realized, especially at that time, I felt like the projects I would be working on would be things that I could share with my kids. And I also thought that Disney, like Pixar, were doing things that were of really high quality and they were trying to tell good stories. They weren't my stories, you know, and they weren't exactly the. That I would want to do them, but I felt like it was the right spot for me to be in. So that's. That's happened a couple times.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Not often. And sometimes it's because I think people know me well enough that they know what I'm going to be interested in and what I'm not.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:38] Speaker B: But again, like, I watch a lot of movies and I totally get, like.
I could really go on a tangent here, so I need to be careful.
But, like, you know, Damien Chazelle is actually one of my favorite directors, and I think Whiplash is just an amazing film, especially for a creator, like, for an artist, and kind of like wrestling with, you know, trying to. Again, trying to get good at your craft. And, like, you know, there is a. It's. I feel like it almost is a requirement to be a bit obsessive about trying to get really good, but also the dangers of that. And so Whiplash, I think, is a really important movie. I could never make that movie. Like, I just could not. I could not do it. But it actually is moving to me, you know?
[00:47:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's good.
[00:47:25] Speaker C: That raises a question that has popped up in my mind as we've been talking, which is this idea of calling that our culture often treats as singular. I am called to, or I have a calling too. But, you know, calling is actually multiple. You're called as a husband, you're called as a father, you're called as a professor, you're called as a storyteller. And even within storytelling, you're called to some stories and not other stories. And I'm curious what your thoughts on how to balance those, because I think a lot of times what ends up being idolatry in our heart is just picking one calling overall to the exclusion of all the others, you know?
But how do you balance being faithful to your kids and to your wife and to your students and to the stories you're telling, that sort of thing?
[00:48:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a super good question. Really hard to answer, especially I think, right now, because, you know, it's so competitive out there and there's. It's a rough time in the industry and people need work. And so, like, how do you balance, like, hey, I need a job. Like, I need to help provide for my family and for my kids, and I have an opportunity. I don't love it, but should I take it? Like, that's a real question I'm sure a lot of people are asking right now. I can say that, you know, a lot of it is just first conversation with my wife. Also, like, making sure that we're on the same page with things. You know, when we moved down to la, we. For those who are familiar with la, it's very expensive to live here. You don't have to be that familiar with LA to know that. But it's actually really Expensive, especially in certain spots. And the studio, the Disney studios in Burbank, media capital of the world.
And. But if you live in Burbank, like, the cost of living is really high for not a big space, but you could live in Santa Clarita, you could live in Valencia, like, you could live in other places that you can have more space and for less. But, you know, it's a 45 minute to hour commute. I know this is getting very practical, but this is literally how we thought.
[00:49:26] Speaker C: We love practical.
[00:49:28] Speaker B: Okay, good. And, you know, every, every family has to make their own decision and what is right for them. And I think for some people, it is the right decision to live out there because there's something out there that makes sense for them. For us, it was really clear to my wife and I that, like, no, I'm going to be working a lot of hours and when I am done for the day, I want to be home, like, instantly. And my kids are going to be in schools in Burbank, and I want to be able to jet out of a meeting and go see them in the school play or like whatever it is. And so we made the decision to have a much smaller spot, but that was really close to the studio. So that, I mean, that was the right decision for us so that I could be home immediately. You know, it wasn't like I was actually living away from home, you know, like during the week I was just not present. And we, we worked really hard to make sure that it wasn't like that. So, like, I came home for lunch almost every day. You know, my wife worked out of the house. So, you know, those are all different choices. And, you know, some feel like sacrifices, but for us, that was right. You know, we felt called to be here and, but also called to be good parents, you know, and good spouses. So I don't know if that answers your question, but it's a very practical example.
[00:50:53] Speaker C: That's a great lozenge for people to sort of check on and figure out how those principles play out in their lives. So I love that.
[00:51:00] Speaker B: Again, it's a really, really hard.
It's a really hard question. It's going to be different for everyone. And I just hope again that, that people can get to that place where they, they receive that sort of piece where it's like, yep, this is, this is what we should do. Yeah, because it can be really difficult.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: For sure. I hear you. You know, you have kids, you've been in industry for a while, you've worked on lots of Projects or, you know, a father Christian, you know, believer. Is there any advice you'd give yourself, like your 25 year old self, you would jump back in time? You're like.
[00:51:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure many, I'm sure there's so many. I feel like in many ways I've shared a lot of them already through these other tangents that I've, that I've, that I've taken.
When you're, when or even when you're not waiting, like, make a priority to be really good at your craft. Don't just think that it's gonna just like land in your lap.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:51:53] Speaker B: Like be ready, I guess.
[00:51:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:56] Speaker C: And perfecting your craft is something you can do while waiting.
[00:51:59] Speaker B: Right, Exactly.
[00:52:00] Speaker C: Waiting doesn't have to be inactive.
[00:52:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that's the point is like, you know, waiting by its nature feels passive, but like be an active waiter, like if you need to do that.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's good.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Speaker C: Sorry I derailed your thought there and now I'm no wondering where you were going.
[00:52:19] Speaker A: I feel like that is such an important one for so many people right now is that at least waiting in that context is not passive.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And I, I, I get it. Like, I feel like I know so many other believers who are just, just feel paralyzed. Yeah, they just feel paralyzed and they're just like, I don't know what to do. I, I feel like I'm not God didn't tell me, hearing the Lord's voice, like I, or like I should I move here? Should I move here? And I can't make a decision because I, I just don't have a sense of clarity of it.
And I, again, I don't have the answer. I can say for me it has been that constant communication, asking for clarity and also being very active and just like, you know, maybe, maybe I shouldn't even say this because I don't want to make it salt in the wound, but it's like during that waiting, like maybe, maybe you're not ready.
[00:53:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:18] Speaker B: You know, like, and so that paralysis can just lead to passive goodness that is like get up and do the thing. Like keep, keep working at it.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: That's good, you know, that's good.
[00:53:32] Speaker B: Another really big one for me is again, I think as artists it's so, such a delicate balance. But there's this sense of, there's this sense of, I don't know if it's like imposter syndrome or what, but like comparing yourself to other artists and how that can also sort of lead to discouragement and paralysis. And, like, what am I doing? I will say this is a little bit of a tangent, but one of the things I tell my students often is that, you know, students, and I would say this happens to a lot of people who actually move to la. A lot of people who move to la, artists, whatever, they've been big fish in small ponds before. They come here and they come to, whether it's for school, like USC or whatever, and all of a sudden they're surrounded by rock stars, like, who they perceive as, like, whoa. Like, and that can be super discouraging. It can either lead to paralysis, like, I'm not as good as that person. Like, why should I even try? It can also be even worse than that. Like, at. At Disney, I tell my students, like, if you ever get an opportunity to work at a big studio, like a Disney or Pixar or whatever, just know that, you know, up until now in your life, everybody looks at the work that you're doing and they're like, wow, you're amazing. Like, you're the best artist I've ever seen. Like, all this stuff, and you're good, right? But if you're in a place like Disney, those, like, those, like, adulations, they are over. Like, you go into a review room and you show your work. Work not once. I was at Disney for 14 years. Nobody sits there, looks at your work and goes, wow, Josh, you are really a good artist. Like, you are really good. It's all about the work. It's all about, does this serve the needs of the project? Like, there's an assumption that if you're here, you're good. So let's. We're not even going to talk about it. Like, that is over. So if you need your ego stroked, this is not. This is not the place for that.
So I think it has to be more of, like, this, this. This personal artistic journey that's just like, just take the next step. Just, like, look at other people's work. Be inspired. Don't compare yourself to it. Just, like, what can I learn from that person? You know, take the next step, Keep working at it. Like, it sounds cliche, but that. That really is.
[00:55:52] Speaker A: Oh, that's good.
[00:55:53] Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? Like, it's. It's a really difficult thing to wrestle with because it's so easy, I think, as artists to be discouraged by criticism or whatever. Like, this industry, that is, the job is you put up. You put your out there on the screen, and everyone else's job is to rip it to shreds and make it until you make it better and keep plussing it. Yeah, that's really the job. So prepare yourself for that. I guess maybe that's the advice I would give to my 25 year old self is like, yeah, this is the road, like this is the job.
[00:56:29] Speaker A: So that's good. I mean I think just take the next step. Sounds so simple and I think that kind of could probably be a book on creativity.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: Yeah. 100%.
[00:56:37] Speaker A: You're also talking about removing your identity slash value from that and that's really could be an obstacle.
[00:56:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: I think for the believer too if you're like, oh well God gave me this, this is my thing.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know I do. I think you're 100%. I think the cheat code to maybe help you avoid that, that is to join that philosophy of like it's about the greater piece.
[00:57:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: Like I'm, I am, my role is in service to this bigger thing.
[00:57:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:12] Speaker B: So if I can look at it like that and less about like. But I made that and they don't like that. It's not about that. It's about how do we serve the bigger thing. And I think that's actually just a better posture as a believer to have. It's again, it gets back to that like before entering those rooms, it's like praying on my walk to the room of like I know that this thing that I just pulled two all nighters in a row and I'm walking in there and I know this thing is going to get ripped to shreds no matter how great I think it is. Like help me to just receive the feedback with a soft heart and not let my ego get involved, you know?
[00:57:51] Speaker A: That's good. So good. I want to respect your time here, I guess. One last question for you and this is more kind of just jumping back into the present for you, but is there anything that you currently feel that God may be calling you towards that you're willing to share?
[00:58:06] Speaker B: Yeah, so I am and I'll try to keep it short.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: I mean I'm on your time, so.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. You asked me before like what is the project that I am most proud of having been a part of and the project that I'm working on now. It's not just because it's a project I'm working on now genuinely is a whole different ball game for me. It's something that I started to develop while I was at Disney actually just poking away at it and then at Netflix and it's an Animated series where there are two deaf main characters and I'm not deaf. I actually have no, like, I have no siblings or anything that are deaf. This is another one of these things where I feel like I was not in control of this situation, basically sort of stumbled into this thing. And I have spent the last six or seven years, like, immersing myself in the deaf community, learning asl, now traveling around the country and talking to schools, like deaf schools, to their. The students and faculty, trying to inspire them to get into the arts and also share what's going on on the project. I have so many dear, dear deaf friends now and again. I care deeply about this project.
I care even more so about the relationships that I'm making and actually how it's changing me as a person. There's a statistic that ever since I heard it, I really couldn't sleep at night, which is 90% of deaf kids are born to hearing parents and 75% of those parents don't learn ASL. So you have just this enormous number of kids not being able to communicate effectively in their own home, like with their parents. And so it's become kind of like this thing for me where I just feel so clearly like this is what I should be doing. Again, it's about the relationships. I think the project is great. I think it's going to be entertaining. But more than that, I think it's going to be moving to people. Like, that's my ultimate goal with any project, is to move people. But for me personally, it's the experiences of working and putting together a team that is a mix of deaf and hearing people.
And like, figuring out how to make this work is like, that is the reward. So it's. It's been.
It's been an incredible experience. So that's what I'm. I'm doing and feel very passionate about right now.
[01:00:26] Speaker A: Sounds. Sounds really beautiful. That statistic hit me in the heart. Even just hearing that.
[01:00:31] Speaker B: I mean, it's.
It's crazy.
[01:00:33] Speaker A: They can't talk to their parents, you know?
[01:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And as a parent myself, like, I can't imagine that. Yeah, I just can't imagine it.
[01:00:42] Speaker A: Wow. Well, when. So you've been working on that. You started development a while ago.
[01:00:46] Speaker B: A while ago. But I was just poking away at it. It's actually been the last last couple of years. It's generated a lot of interest from. I received offers from a couple major streamers, but have actually decided to keep it. Cause I just don't for now, like, they're still interested, but I've put together this scrappy team because there's some really interesting challenges with it. Like, there's characters using asl, there's how do you do subtit this kind of family project. Like, there's a lot of really interesting challenges which, honestly, at this point in my career, I'm really only interested in doing things that are hard and. And have some meaning. Yeah, I feel like I. I hope that I've always been that way to some degree, but, like, that is where I'm at. And I'm very grateful that I'm at a place in my career and life too, where I can do that. I can. I can actually just do that and focus on that, which I know not everybody can, so. But yeah, that's the thing I'm passionate about right now.
[01:01:44] Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, we are so grateful to get to hear about it and for your time of sharing with us. And I know it'll be meaningful for so many people listening. So thank you so much.
[01:01:54] Speaker B: It's been so great chatting with you guys.
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Real quick, if people want to know about more about you, your work, where should they go?
[01:02:00] Speaker B: Well, so they can go to, I mean, IMDb like everybody else, but they can also go to my. My company, which is me, is Jubilee Studios. So if you go there, you won't find anything because everything is behind a protected wall. But if you go to Jubilee Studios.com portfolio, you can see kind of like a little bit about my background. Yeah, you can find out, like, projects that I've worked on and I try to keep things sort of updated there.
Yeah, sort of.
[01:02:31] Speaker C: When it comes to the world of websites is top notch.
[01:02:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[01:02:38] Speaker B: For sure.
[01:02:38] Speaker C: If I wanted to see Mantis Parable, is there a way I can do that?
[01:02:42] Speaker B: You can actually see it. It's 15 years old. Actually, it's more than 15 years old now, so it's a little cringy for me. Like, people still tell me that they see it and they're like, they still love it, but it's okay.
[01:02:54] Speaker C: We all have those projects.
[01:02:56] Speaker B: We do. Yeah. But a lot of people actually have pirated it and put it on YouTube. Actually. I know we're sort of like off the podcast clock, I'm sure, at this point. But the. One of the things about Mantis Parable that was so. So we talked about, like, mystery and in storytelling and one of the really cool things I think that came out of that. And I'm not gonna give the ending away. Cause I want you now to go see it. But this idea of grace in the film, there's kind of a question that most people have when they're done watching the film. It's, you know, the film I think is for anybody, it's for adults, it's for kids. And I spend a lot on the festival circuit, like going around and showing the film. And almost every place I went I got the same question. And I'm not going to tell you what that question was, but it basically leads to this idea of like, was grace involved in the ending of this story?
And my response question, because I got it so often to them was what do you want it to be?
And to a person, people want the answer to be that it was a grace moment.
Whether it's a six year old kid or a 60 year old grandmother, they had the same question. And then when they said like, yes, I want it to be that way. And I'm like, me too. Like that's how I want the world to work. Okay, now I know that's super vague because you haven't seen the film, but it's the kind of mystery that I like is like leaving people with a question of like, I think this, but I really, I'm not sure. And then the follow up is like, well, what do you want it to have been? What do you want the resolution to have been? And the fact is, it's kind of like this thing is that it's written on our heart the way we want things to work. Like the way that we believe the world should work. So when you do go watch the Mantis parable, you'll have to give me some grace because again, this was a long, long time ago.
[01:04:54] Speaker A: I think your track record covers you.
[01:04:56] Speaker B: I'm super proud of it. I'm still super proud of it, it, but it's a different version of me. Like it was, you know, it was, you know, like everybody else, you're on your artistic journey and that's where I was.
[01:05:06] Speaker A: Thank you so much, ma'.
[01:05:07] Speaker B: Am.
[01:05:07] Speaker A: I really appreciate it.
[01:05:08] Speaker B: I'll talk soon, guys.
